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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Wrong.

    The blowout preventer was defective or broken. The deadman failed. And normal operation failed. When they tried to operate it manually with an ROV, it failed and hydraulic fluid leaked out. Adding a third way to activate it wouldn't have made a difference if the device it was activating was broken.

    Is that all you have? I assume you'll resort to lying next?
    Could you please tell the Wall Street Journal they're lying? I cited them as a source. You cited nothing.
    Last edited by scfire86; 05-30-2010 at 04:33 PM.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    They could have placed a device known as the Acoustic switch as SC pointed out on the blow out preventer to activate it. This would have provided a tertiary method of activating the valve. However, the valve, is a single point of failure. So if the valve fails all the activation methods in the world won't help.
    Please detail for us your vast experience in petroleum engineering.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It is my understanding that the blow out preventer had been damaged days earlier. However the foreman on the rig ignored this and kept going. It appears that there were a series of human errors that caused the accident and all the regulations in the world will not overcome all human errors.
    You've proven on numerous occasions that the only thing you understand is the ability to allow a credit card balance drive you to BK.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  3. #23
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, if you read the article PELOSI is Blaming Bush; It is Obamas House NOW. Stop blaming Bush.
    Why? Because it's true? As I pointed out, Bush blamed Clinton for numerous issues till the day he left office eight years later. If Obama is forced to accept blame for the BP oil spill, then Bush should be blamed for allowing 9/11 to occur. An action that killed 3,000 Americans. Right? Or are you going to claim that didn't happen. Sooo....when the conservative media claims this incident is "Obama's Katrina," is that a good or a bad thing? Given how conservatives praised Bush's handling of that incident. I can understand why conservatives are demanding that people stop blaming Bush, they supported for eight years what will be known as one of the worst presidential administrations in our nation's history.

    Here's a fun clip with edits from faux nooz.

    Link

    What I like about it is how the right wing noise machine initially tried to claim the oil spill was less than the natural seepage that occurs. In the weeks immediately following the sinking of the Deepwater Horizon oil platform on April 20, 2010, Conservative pundits quickly tried to minimize the amount of damage we could expect from all that oil washing ashore, comparing it to "natural seepage" from the ocean floor. Then the oil started washing ashore, and suddenly this was "Obama's Katrina".


    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    More importantly is the fact that the President nor the congress can control the economy. It is foolish to believe any of them have that much power and influence. While the government accounts for 25% of GDP (which is far more than any bank or other industry) it is only one input of millions of inputs into the economic system. I find it humorous how our legislators talk about reforming the banking industry because we have "banks to big to fail"; yet the biggest problem is a government that is to big to fail.
    You continue to show your lack of understanding of how government spending affects the economy. Please cease this line of thought and cut your losses now. You'll only make yourself look even more foolish.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Giving credit or placing blame on a President for the state of the economy shows a total lack of understanding of the complexities of the economy. It would be like blaming the President for the weather.
    You would know all about a lack of understanding. Please detail how well you managed your personal finances. Then we can decide how suited you are to comment on this facet of our society.

    You're really not very bright, are you?
    Last edited by scfire86; 05-30-2010 at 04:50 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Please detail for us your vast experience in petroleum engineering.


    You've proven on numerous occasions that the only thing you understand is the ability to allow a credit card balance drive you to BK.

    I simply read the article in the WSJ that you cited.

    Here is an article for you to read as well You Were Right, but It Didn't Matter: 12 Ideas for Arguing your Point Effectively

    Pay attention to number:

    7. Often, your opponent will pass his beliefs and opinions for an unquestionable truth. So, be on guard for and readily reject ad hominem attacks (when your opponent targets your persona and not your argument). For example: "I don't see how this approach can ever work, coming from someone who can't control his weight, let alone an initiative of this importance!"

    AND

    11 Red herring anyone? Watch for arguments with little to no connection to the issue at stake, which are introduced to misdirect the attention of you and the rest of the audience. This also often happens inadvertently.


    You seem to manage to break the rules all the time.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You're really not very bright, are you?
    Actually, I am a highly intelligent individual who has trouble dealing with stupid people.

  6. #26
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Pay attention to number:

    7. Often, your opponent will pass his beliefs and opinions for an unquestionable truth. So, be on guard for and readily reject ad hominem attacks (when your opponent targets your persona and not your argument). For example: "I don't see how this approach can ever work, coming from someone who can't control his weight, let alone an initiative of this importance!"
    That implies the point you're claiming was accurate. Which it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    AND

    11 Red herring anyone? Watch for arguments with little to no connection to the issue at stake, which are introduced to misdirect the attention of you and the rest of the audience. This also often happens inadvertently.
    Much like the numbnuts who brought up the USSR.


    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    You seem to manage to break the rules all the time.
    That's if one believes there are rules for folks like you who can't read.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  7. #27
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, I am a highly intelligent individual who has trouble dealing with stupid people.
    You must have one hell of a time dealing with yourself. A legend in your own mind.
    Last edited by scfire86; 05-30-2010 at 08:30 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  8. #28
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    Are you getting paid per word or the post?

  9. #29
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    Another of SC's nutty ilk. What a bunch of loons.

    http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm

    DETAILS: FARRAKHAN. PRESS 'STAND OFF' IN OBAMA'S NEIGHBORHOOD


    Sent: Sat May 29 21:08:47 2010
    Subject: White House Pool Report

    At 7:20 local time the pool was holding at Woodlawn and 49th, next to a large sandstone mansion that the Chicago reporters say is the home of one Louis Farrakhan. Our Secret Service agent allowed us off the bus (Air!) and as a dozen of us congregated on the sidewalk, inevitably some shoes touched grass. Immediately a polite man in jeans and Tshirt emerged to ask us to stay off the grass. Though this grass was the curbside city property, we obliged.

    Soon, however, he was pacing and talking on a cell phone. He went inside the mansion's black wrought iron fence, crossed the well-landscaped yard, lifted a water bucket behind rose bushes and, voila!, a walkie-talkie. He was heard to refer to "the CIA" once he began speaking into it. Soon he approached our agent, asking him to move the van and its occupants, though your pooler could not hear much else he said. But the agent said, "How is this a security breach?" And he asked if the house was a government property.

    The man said something else and at that point the agent stuck out his hand to shake hands and introduced himself as a Secret Service agent. He added, "Sir, I can assure you that we will do nothing to interfere with whatever is going on in there."

    The man is back to pacing and talking on his cell, walkie-talkie in hand.

    A co-pooler searched the Internet for the address and found it listed on a Web site called NotForTourists and another called Taxexemptworld.com. Indeed, another pooler found a county Web site that confirmed this property is tax exempt for being a religious institution.

    Reinforcements arrived--three men in Tshirts reading "Wide or Die!" One surly man has been staring daggers at us. Asked if this is Minister Farrakhan's house, he just stared at your pooler. Asked again, he said, "I don't have no comment."

    You should have the WH statement on top kill's failure. At nearly 8 pm local time we are still holding while POTUS and family remain at the Nesbitts.



    Sent: Sat May 29 22:07:24 2010
    Subject: Pool Report

    It's 8:45 and nearly dark; your pool has retreated back inside the van. We're outnumbered now by roughly a dozen Fruit of Islam agents for the Nation of Islam. As each casually dressed man arrives, he exchanges elaborate handshake/hug/double air-kisses with others. Two walked by your pooler chanting "Islam."

    Several have filmed and photographed your poolers, the van and its license plates with their cell phones.

    One came and stood close to a couple poolers and OUR agent. He asked if he could help. No answer. He asked again. The man said no. The agent said, "Secret Service -- Please move away from this group of people."

    He did.

    Soon the agent asked us to go in the bus.

    We did.

    But several poolers, hearing the call of nature, are asking whether they might ask the Fruit about using their bathroom.



    Sent: Sat May 29 22:31:56 2010
    Subject: Pool Report

    9:20 local time and our agent got reinforcements from three Secret Service agents. One shook hands with one of the 22 Fruit members we now can count from the van. After a short discussion the three Secret Service agents walked away again.

    No word on when we get to leave. We're guessing POTUS is watching the Blackhawks game at the Nesbitts' home.



    Sent: Sat May 29 23:45:48 2010
    Subject: Pool Report 5c

    The power of pool reportage! Standoff ends, apparently with help of intermediary in Detroit:

    Your pooler got a call at about 10:15 local time from a pool report reader who identified himself as the Rev. Gary Hunter, a Baptist minister in Motown who writes and blogs for the Detroit Times. He said he had called Minister Farrakhan and his son and asked them to have the Fruit stand down.

    "I told him you were good people," Rev. Hunter said. "He said he didn't know you all were just waiting for the president."

    As it happens, the FOI indeed had mostly gone by then. The Rev Hunter apparently is remembered by Ms. Tubman, and he said he knows our frequent press rustler Ben Finkenbinder from past travels with Obama, and -- sorry, Ben -- could he make that name up?

    Anyway, at 10:33 we pulled away and we are at the Obama residence. Never saw Potus et al. WE HAVE A FULL LID.

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    People have to remeber that any president cant completely double check every part of the federal government the minute they take office to see if everything is going to work. Most of the time a president doesn't find out that something is broken untill after the fact. We all should have known this was comming. When Bush first took office he had all those "top secret " meeting that the refused to tell the american people what was said so they could make there secret deals with the oil industry. The part I don't understand is if it was a democrat that had secret meetings the rebulicans would be all over them to come clean but when the republicain have secret meeting the american people are oh so cool with it and never question is WHY?

  11. #31
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Another of SC's nutty ilk. What a bunch of loons.
    Could you please post where I have ever expressed any support for this individual?

    Isn't it time for you to go service one of your farm animals?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by volfireman034 View Post
    People have to remeber that any president cant completely double check every part of the federal government the minute they take office to see if everything is going to work. Most of the time a president doesn't find out that something is broken untill after the fact. We all should have known this was comming. When Bush first took office he had all those "top secret " meeting that the refused to tell the american people what was said so they could make there secret deals with the oil industry. The part I don't understand is if it was a democrat that had secret meetings the rebulicans would be all over them to come clean but when the republicain have secret meeting the american people are oh so cool with it and never question is WHY?
    Cheney claimed "executive privilege" when he was subpoenaed for the notes of his Energy Task Force that ended up including two individuals convicted of securities and wire fraud.

    Yet conservatives applauded his actions.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    What I like about it is how the right wing noise machine initially tried to claim the oil spill was less than the natural seepage that occurs. In the weeks immediately following the sinking of the Deepwater Horizon oil platform on April 20, 2010, Conservative pundits quickly tried to minimize the amount of damage we could expect from all that oil washing ashore, comparing it to "natural seepage" from the ocean floor. Then the oil started washing ashore, and suddenly this was "Obama's Katrina".
    Let's state a few facts here.
    1. We need oil.
    2. Without the oil nearly every car, bus, truck, train, plane and ship stops moving.
    3. In the Northern half of the country many people would freeze as they would have no way to heat their homes.
    4. Without the ability to move products (including food) large numbers of people (mostly in cities) will die.
    5. There is no viable alternative to using oil.
    6. liberals reject every attempt to use alternative energy sources; especially in their back yard. Windmills, Hydro, nuclear (although 30 years later they are coming around to this one), solar farms, you name, liberals will oppose these options.

    Then there is the option of making all of our transportation needs electric. It would take 50 years to get the infrastructure in place. After all, it's one thing to set up a few lightweight trains in relatively small places likes NYC, Boston, and Chicago. It is entirely another thing altogether to set up the grid needed to run electric trains in the entire country. Think of all of the batteries that would be needed to just run passenger cars, this doesn't even consider, trucks or motorcycles. We don't have the power generating facilities and the red tape to build them is enormous. We also don't have the transmission lines. So this is not even a good option

    Next, liberals and conservatives alike say we need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. How do we eliminate this need? Can't be done.

    I also find it ironic how it is horrible to drill for oil in U.S. Coastal waters but it is OK in Norway, Canada, Brazil, the North Sea and other countries. And what is truly ironic here is that the deeper the well (that is farther from shore) the more difficult and dangerous it is.

    There are 3800 oil rigs operating in the Gulf Coast. There are years of not having any large scale problems. Now all of a sudden there is this knee jerk reaction to ban all drilling. That is like grounding all airplanes because one crashed.

    Bottom line is we need the oil and will continue to need the oil for the next 100 years. And think about this. The higher the population density the more liberal the area becomes. Without the oil to support the transportation of food those highly populated areas perish. In fact, the liberals are asking for their own demise. Think about a world without oil; then tell me how bad it really is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Cheney claimed "executive privilege" when he was subpoenaed for the notes of his Energy Task Force that ended up including two individuals convicted of securities and wire fraud.

    Yet conservatives applauded his actions.
    And what did Obama claim when asked for his college records?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You continue to show your lack of understanding of how government spending affects the economy. Please cease this line of thought and cut your losses now. You'll only make yourself look even more foolish.
    Yes government spending and taxation affect the economy; but they don't control the economy. I will give you a perfect example; 401K retirement plans. The law was changed in 1978 (Carter) and went into affect in 1980. As people learned about the benefits of 401K's and more companies implemented them; more money was put into 401K plans. Most of the 401K money is invested in stocks. This resulted in a hugs increase in the amount of money being invested, causing many stocks to become over valued. During the 1990s we saw unrealistic increases of 30% a year for multiple years. That kind of growth is clearly unsustainable. In the 2000s we saw corrections; including a huge one in 2008.

    As a second example, look at the current collapse in May 2010. This was driven primarily by events in Europe. And yes, like it or not, what happens on Wall Street affects the common person on main street. With less working capital and rising taxes companies have less money to operate with. This means cuts in wages, R&D, benefits, and spending. When spending drops in the private sector the entire economy sinks. Rule of thumb is that Wall Street leads Main Street by 6 to 9 months.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes government spending and taxation affect the economy; but they don't control the economy.
    Really? This is precious stuff. You continue to prove you lack any knowledge of this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I will give you a perfect example; 401K retirement plans. The law was changed in 1978 (Carter) and went into affect in 1980. As people learned about the benefits of 401K's and more companies implemented them; more money was put into 401K plans. Most of the 401K money is invested in stocks. This resulted in a hugs increase in the amount of money being invested, causing many stocks to become over valued. During the 1990s we saw unrealistic increases of 30% a year for multiple years. That kind of growth is clearly unsustainable. In the 2000s we saw corrections; including a huge one in 2008.
    What you really gave us was an example of a complete idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    As a second example, look at the current collapse in May 2010. This was driven primarily by events in Europe. And yes, like it or not, what happens on Wall Street affects the common person on main street. With less working capital and rising taxes companies have less money to operate with. This means cuts in wages, R&D, benefits, and spending. When spending drops in the private sector the entire economy sinks. Rule of thumb is that Wall Street leads Main Street by 6 to 9 months.
    Why don't you run along and reread your credit card agreements. Then get back to us on matters of finance.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Let's state a few facts here.
    1. We need oil.
    2. Without the oil nearly every car, bus, truck, train, plane and ship stops moving.
    3. In the Northern half of the country many people would freeze as they would have no way to heat their homes.
    4. Without the ability to move products (including food) large numbers of people (mostly in cities) will die.
    5. There is no viable alternative to using oil.
    6. liberals reject every attempt to use alternative energy sources; especially in their back yard. Windmills, Hydro, nuclear (although 30 years later they are coming around to this one), solar farms, you name, liberals will oppose these options.

    Then there is the option of making all of our transportation needs electric. It would take 50 years to get the infrastructure in place. After all, it's one thing to set up a few lightweight trains in relatively small places likes NYC, Boston, and Chicago. It is entirely another thing altogether to set up the grid needed to run electric trains in the entire country. Think of all of the batteries that would be needed to just run passenger cars, this doesn't even consider, trucks or motorcycles. We don't have the power generating facilities and the red tape to build them is enormous. We also don't have the transmission lines. So this is not even a good option

    Next, liberals and conservatives alike say we need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. How do we eliminate this need? Can't be done.

    I also find it ironic how it is horrible to drill for oil in U.S. Coastal waters but it is OK in Norway, Canada, Brazil, the North Sea and other countries. And what is truly ironic here is that the deeper the well (that is farther from shore) the more difficult and dangerous it is.

    There are 3800 oil rigs operating in the Gulf Coast. There are years of not having any large scale problems. Now all of a sudden there is this knee jerk reaction to ban all drilling. That is like grounding all airplanes because one crashed.

    Bottom line is we need the oil and will continue to need the oil for the next 100 years. And think about this. The higher the population density the more liberal the area becomes. Without the oil to support the transportation of food those highly populated areas perish. In fact, the liberals are asking for their own demise. Think about a world without oil; then tell me how bad it really is.
    Which has nothing to do with how the spin evolved from the right wing noise machine as this crisis became more significant.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And what did Obama claim when asked for his college records?
    Red herring. What part of his college records affected something as significant as energy policy. This comparison is a non-sequituir.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Really? This is precious stuff. You continue to prove you lack any knowledge of this topic.


    What you really gave us was an example of a complete idiot.


    Why don't you run along and reread your credit card agreements. Then get back to us on matters of finance.
    You know what. You can continue in the false belief that the government controls the economy. There are millions of inputs and feedback mechanisms in the economic system. The government provides a few of those in both negative and positive inputs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Which has nothing to do with how the spin evolved from the right wing noise machine as this crisis became more significant.
    I don't recall any spin coming from the right, unless you consider the MMS and BP to be the right. Here is something interesting 'Well control' problems reported in March, BP e-mails show. Of course CNN seem to leave out the part about the emails being to MMS district managers.

    What amazes me is how some people like to politicize everything. The Dumbocrats did it in Katrina and the Republicants did it with the oil spill. In software engineering there is a technology known as eXtreme Programming (XP). In this model there is shared ownership for everything. This eliminates finger pointing and focuses on solving problems. Now if the government and BP could do this. Problem is the lawyers jump in and start suing everyone involved. Thus the need to deflect blame to someone else instead of solving the problem. Be nice if all the finger pointing energy was redirected towards solving the problem.

    Red herring. What part of his college records affected something as significant as energy policy. This comparison is a non-sequituir.
    This is not a Red Herring at all, but rather shows how some people decide how a person should be treated and judged based on whether there is an R or D after their name. Which really screws up those bigoted types when they see an I.

    A private meeting between the VP and someone else is no ones business. Funny how the liberals use a dual standard here. Bill Clinton had sexual affairs in the White House and it was no ones business. Cheney had private meetings and we should all know. And Obama hides his college records and that is his business. Please be consistent. Either the lives of our elected officials are open books or they are not; it shouldn't matter if you are republican or democrat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    You know what. You can continue in the false belief that the government controls the economy. There are millions of inputs and feedback mechanisms in the economic system. The government provides a few of those in both negative and positive inputs.
    I will. I'm not the one who went BK.


    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I don't recall any spin coming from the right, unless you consider the MMS and BP to be the right. Here is something interesting 'Well control' problems reported in March, BP e-mails show. Of course CNN seem to leave out the part about the emails being to MMS district managers.
    I posted a link that detailed the right wing noise machine's initial response to the incident. Your deflection of the MMS and associated emails only shows the too cozy relationship that existed between the two groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    What amazes me is how some people like to politicize everything. The Dumbocrats did it in Katrina and the Republicants did it with the oil spill.
    What's even more curious is that conservatives call this Obama's Katrina. An interesting term given the conservative support for Bush's handling of Katrina.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    In software engineering there is a technology known as eXtreme Programming (XP). In this model there is shared ownership for everything. This eliminates finger pointing and focuses on solving problems. Now if the government and BP could do this. Problem is the lawyers jump in and start suing everyone involved. Thus the need to deflect blame to someone else instead of solving the problem. Be nice if all the finger pointing energy was redirected towards solving the problem.
    This is a non-point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    A private meeting between the VP and someone else is no ones business. Funny how the liberals use a dual standard here. Bill Clinton had sexual affairs in the White House and it was no ones business. Cheney had private meetings and we should all know. And Obama hides his college records and that is his business. Please be consistent. Either the lives of our elected officials are open books or they are not; it shouldn't matter if you are republican or democrat.
    Cheney's meeting was done in his office about an issue that could easily affect the lives of almost every American. Clinton's issue affected his family.

    Obama's college records are of no concern to me. I could care less about his GPA at this point in his life. Why anyone would care is a mystery. Once again your comparison is a non-sequituir. We do know he got into Harvard. And we do know he graduated magna cum laude. Something that indicates a better than average GPA.

    Like I said, "who cares?" Besides wingnuts who have nothing better to do?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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