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  1. #41
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    Let's blame everybody and then have everybody take no responsibility, cause this is what this thread is turning into.


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeland View Post
    Let's blame everybody and then have everybody take no responsibility, cause this is what this thread is turning into.
    Actually......Obama has stated he now considers fixing the oil spill his responsibility.

    Not that any conservatives have complimented him for that position.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I will. I'm not the one who went BK.
    Rule #7 violation

    I posted a link that detailed the right wing noise machine's initial response to the incident. Your deflection of the MMS and associated emails only shows the too cozy relationship that existed between the two groups.
    And it clearly points out that the government is incapable of regulating anything.

    What's even more curious is that conservatives call this Obama's Katrina. An interesting term given the conservative support for Bush's handling of Katrina.
    Exactly. Neither responded poorly to the events. People need to grow up. The response to Katrina was fine. The only place that had a problem was New Orleans, a poorly built and poorly managed city. The only fault of the government in the oil spill is not having planned for this type of event.

    This is a non-point.
    It is a point 100%. Instead of sitting down to fix the problem and find out what went wrong everyone is wasting time with finger pointing. Eliminate any potential law suits and fines. Let all parties take ownership of the problem and fix it.

    Cheney's meeting was done in his office about an issue that could easily affect the lives of almost every American. Clinton's issue affected his family.

    Obama's college records are of no concern to me. I could care less about his GPA at this point in his life. Why anyone would care is a mystery. Once again your comparison is a non-sequituir. We do know he got into Harvard. And we do know he graduated magna cum laude. Something that indicates a better than average GPA.

    Like I said, "who cares?" Besides wingnuts who have nothing better to do?
    Clinton's issue showed is lack of good judgment by committing acts of sexual harassment within the White House. Having poor judgment affects the lives of every American.

    Of course Obama's college records are of no concern to his sheep. They don't want to know because the chosen one has decide to hide what is in them. It must be some pretty damaging stuff. Kind of makes you wonder what happened to that transparency. BTW, where is that web site posting all legislation for 5 days for public comment before signing the laws.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeland View Post
    Let's blame everybody and then have everybody take no responsibility, cause this is what this thread is turning into.
    This is how I place the blame:
    • 20% - BP, Halliburton, and Transocean - They knew there were problems and ignored warning signs.
    • 30% - U.S. Government. - They did not properly plan for such an emergency. The did not properly monitor the situation. The emails show they were aware of problems as well.
    • 50% - The American People - We demand cheap fuel for our cars and to heat our homes.

    I'm just amazed at how hypocritical the American People are. We demand environmental regulations, better working conditions, work place protections but aren't willing to pay the cost of those things. Somehow it is OK to pollute another part of the world or support low wages in a foreign country.

  5. #45
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    This is how I place the blame:
    • 20% - BP, Halliburton, and Transocean - They knew there were problems and ignored warning signs.
    • 30% - U.S. Government. - They did not properly plan for such an emergency. The did not properly monitor the situation. The emails show they were aware of problems as well.
    • 50% - The American People - We demand cheap fuel for our cars and to heat our homes.
    This is a hoot. During the Health Care Reform debate, I think you were one of those claiming this was not constitutional since it wasn't explicitly written in the Constitution. So tell us all where the Constitution stipulates the US Government is required to properly plan (a subjective term at best) for these types of manmade disasters?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I'm just amazed at how hypocritical the American People are. We demand environmental regulations, better working conditions, work place protections but aren't willing to pay the cost of those things. Somehow it is OK to pollute another part of the world or support low wages in a foreign country.
    And we're constantly amazed at the continued idiocy of your statements.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This is a hoot. During the Health Care Reform debate, I think you were one of those claiming this was not constitutional since it wasn't explicitly written in the Constitution. So tell us all where the Constitution stipulates the US Government is required to properly plan (a subjective term at best) for these types of manmade disasters?
    Right next to the line that says we must have fire departments. A properly planned response to the fire would have prevented the rig from sinking. Then there is no oil spill.

    Of course with that line of reasoning there should not have been a response to the 9-11 disaster
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 06-01-2010 at 07:15 PM.

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    Most of this is a load of crap. Why does anyone blame any political party or president for a disaster. Is any president one that cut corners?

    What the h - e- double toothpicks would a president know about oil rigs.

    it is the response that is the issue. Yes it was slow. But before anyone blames anyone else why don't you find a better way of handling the problem.

    The blame for the adcident should clearly go on either BP, the manufacturer of the oil rig or the manufacturere/designer of the blow out preventor.

    I don't like what Obama has done during his administration either.

    But now someone tell me what could have been done better? But before you say something like bring every ship that can syphen oil from the ocean to that area first think that those ships are stationed all over the world and the time it would take to get them there.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Right next to the line that says we must have fire departments. A properly planned response to the fire would have prevented the rig from sinking. Then there is no oil spill.
    Another non-sequituir statement. We're discussing federal responsibilities. Your response is a function of local government. Most of whom derive the authority to establish FD's via their local charters or the state constitutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Of course with that line of reasoning there should not have been a response to the 9-11 disaster
    Which was initially responded to by a local government entity. See above response on the authority to establish those entities.

    My neighbor's 12 y/o daughter rolls her eyes. Thanks for letting me know the level of your mentality.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Another non-sequituir statement. We're discussing federal responsibilities. Your response is a function of local government. Most of whom derive the authority to establish FD's via their local charters or the state constitutions.


    Which was initially responded to by a local government entity. See above response on the authority to establish those entities.

    My neighbor's 12 y/o daughter rolls her eyes. Thanks for letting me know the level of your mentality.
    "So tell us all where the Constitution stipulates the US Government is required to properly plan (a subjective term at best) for these types of manmade disasters?"

    So according to you the U.S. Government doesn't respond to "man made" disasters?

    That is a funny world you live in.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    This is how I place the blame:
    • 20% - BP, Halliburton, and Transocean - They knew there were problems and ignored warning signs.
    • 30% - U.S. Government. - They did not properly plan for such an emergency. The did not properly monitor the situation. The emails show they were aware of problems as well.
    • 50% - The American People - We demand cheap fuel for our cars and to heat our homes.

    I'm just amazed at how hypocritical the American People are. We demand environmental regulations, better working conditions, work place protections but aren't willing to pay the cost of those things. Somehow it is OK to pollute another part of the world or support low wages in a foreign country.

    Hypocritical??...... Not Me. I am Adamant that Fuel Prices be kept below $2.00/Gal. I am NOT demanding more Environmental Regulations, I'm Demanding that most of them be repealed, since they are part of the Problem with Fuel Prices. Better Working Conditions?? Again, something that interferes with productivity. Cut OSHA by 80%. Some of OSHA's stuff is absolutely Ludicrous, Just Like some Union Work Rules. Bring an end to Political correctness and restore Common Sense to America.......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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  11. #51
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    Thumbs down Sudden Thought.............

    News sources are reporting on a Giant Sink hole that opened up in the middle of a Central American City (Guatamala??) with numerous Fatalities. Will her royal highness Ms Pelosi blame THAT on the Conservatives too??.....
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods
    Hypocritical??...... Not Me. I am Adamant that Fuel Prices be kept below $2.00/Gal. I am NOT demanding more Environmental Regulations, I'm Demanding that most of them be repealed, since they are part of the Problem with Fuel Prices. Better Working Conditions?? Again, something that interferes with productivity. Cut OSHA by 80%. Some of OSHA's stuff is absolutely Ludicrous, Just Like some Union Work Rules. Bring an end to Political correctness and restore Common Sense to America.......
    I try to stay out of all the BS politicking that goes on here, in the forum. But that right there is the biggest problem we have. Big Government, with little minds.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Hypocritical??...... Not Me. I am Adamant that Fuel Prices be kept below $2.00/Gal. I am NOT demanding more Environmental Regulations, I'm Demanding that most of them be repealed, since they are part of the Problem with Fuel Prices. Better Working Conditions?? Again, something that interferes with productivity. Cut OSHA by 80%. Some of OSHA's stuff is absolutely Ludicrous, Just Like some Union Work Rules. Bring an end to Political correctness and restore Common Sense to America.......
    I'm not sure how it works in the US, but here, 80% of our gas price is taxes. As far as cutting environmental and workplace regulations, I'm totally against doing that. Some of these regs are over the top, but leaving industry to regulate themselves leads to things like the Appalachian coal mines, Love Canal, the river that caught fire. As far as Health, back in the day in the oilfield. Very few guys with 20 years or more in the patch, had alll their fingers. Now its a lot different. Don't like the high fuel prices, change your vehicle, change your driving habits. There are many comfortable, powerful, fuel efficient vehicles made today. Just that Ford, GM, and Chrysler don't make any of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This is a hoot. During the Health Care Reform debate, I think you were one of those claiming this was not constitutional since it wasn't explicitly written in the Constitution. So tell us all where the Constitution stipulates the US Government is required to properly plan (a subjective term at best) for these types of manmade disasters?
    The more I think about this the more I realize this is just some pot stirring. It is coming form a person who believes the government is to provide for all of our needs because private industry can't be trusted but corrupt governments can. Disasters are disasters, doesn't matter who or what caused them. For a list of agencies that respond to emergencies at the federal level:
    • FEMA
    • DHS
    • U.S. Forest Service
    • ATF
    • CDC
    • U.S. Coast Guard
    • National Guard
    • FBI
    • Corps of Engineers
    • U.S. Army
    • U.S. Air Force

    Plus a few others. So yes, the federal government does provide response to emergencies of any type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    I'm not sure how it works in the US, but here, 80% of our gas price is taxes. As far as cutting environmental and workplace regulations, I'm totally against doing that. Some of these regs are over the top, but leaving industry to regulate themselves leads to things like the Appalachian coal mines, Love Canal, the river that caught fire. As far as Health, back in the day in the oilfield. Very few guys with 20 years or more in the patch, had alll their fingers. Now its a lot different. Don't like the high fuel prices, change your vehicle, change your driving habits. There are many comfortable, powerful, fuel efficient vehicles made today. Just that Ford, GM, and Chrysler don't make any of them.
    Unfortunately there is a price to pay for those regulations. We lose a lot of jobs because the function can be done cheaper by shipping raw materials to the third world where they don't care about such things. Finished products are returned and the majority American consumers shop for the lowest price without regard for where the product was made and under what conditions. Like I said, it is OK to pollute In other parts of the world and support poor conditions there as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    I try to stay out of all the BS politicking that goes on here, in the forum. But that right there is the biggest problem we have. Big Government, with little minds.

    FM1
    You left out the part about how most government officials (including the 535) are far more corrupt than any private company ever thought of being.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The more I think about this the more I realize this is just some pot stirring. It is coming form a person who believes the government is to provide for all of our needs because private industry can't be trusted but corrupt governments can. Disasters are disasters, doesn't matter who or what caused them. For a list of agencies that respond to emergencies at the federal level:
    • FEMA
    • DHS
    • U.S. Forest Service
    • ATF
    • CDC
    • U.S. Coast Guard
    • National Guard
    • FBI
    • Corps of Engineers
    • U.S. Army
    • U.S. Air Force

    Plus a few others. So yes, the federal government does provide response to emergencies of any type.
    Hey numbnuts. I never said the Feds don't provide response to emergencies. What I said is those idiots like yourself who decry just about any government action they believe isn't specifically written in the Constitution. Now they are the first ones demanding action from the Feds. So I'll ask again. Where is it written in the Constitution that demands the Feds be prepared to respond to an oil spill?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Hey numbnuts. I never said the Feds don't provide response to emergencies. What I said is those idiots like yourself who decry just about any government action they believe isn't specifically written in the Constitution. Now they are the first ones demanding action from the Feds. So I'll ask again. Where is it written in the Constitution that demands the Feds be prepared to respond to an oil spill?
    Nice backtrack.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    I'm not sure how it works in the US, but here, 80% of our gas price is taxes. As far as cutting environmental and workplace regulations, I'm totally against doing that. Some of these regs are over the top, but leaving industry to regulate themselves leads to things like the Appalachian coal mines, Love Canal, the river that caught fire. As far as Health, back in the day in the oilfield. Very few guys with 20 years or more in the patch, had alll their fingers. Now its a lot different. Don't like the high fuel prices, change your vehicle, change your driving habits. There are many comfortable, powerful, fuel efficient vehicles made today. Just that Ford, GM, and Chrysler don't make any of them.
    Speaking of Government regulations, yes it is too much in the US. Also speaking stricitly about the Appalachian Coal Mines, it appears that the media and govenrment has done their job by misinforming pretty much anyone that is not in the business. There is EXTREME government regulation in the coal industry. It makes me sick to listen to people on TV or even in the government talk about the coal industry when they have never even seen a piece of coal in their lives. I know nothing about steelworkers but when a building under construction collapses or a crane tumbles you don't hear me saying anything. We are probably the most regulated industry there is next to the airline (security only). Strictly speaking, there may not have been anyway this disaster could have been prevented but we will not know until the ivestigation. Of course no one or source is stating that MSHA was onsite earlier at that very mine and didn't report any problems that could have caused that incicent. But hey let's create more government regulations. More fed regulations means more spending. It would please the big O administration nothing more than to shut coal mining completely down. I say do it. All coal miners, suppliers, truckers, terminals, barges and railroads shut down coal for a week and see what happens. 75% of the country would not have power and a mjority of other countries as well.

    I'm sorry but that is a touchy subject with me.

    And no our taxes are not 80%. If they were the oil industry would not be making 12 billion profit a quarter.

  20. #60
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    I'm not sure how it works in the US, but here, 80% of our gas price is taxes. As far as cutting environmental and workplace regulations, I'm totally against doing that. Some of these regs are over the top, but leaving industry to regulate themselves leads to things like the Appalachian coal mines, Love Canal, the river that caught fire. As far as Health, back in the day in the oilfield. Very few guys with 20 years or more in the patch, had alll their fingers. Now its a lot different. Don't like the high fuel prices, change your vehicle, change your driving habits. There are many comfortable, powerful, fuel efficient vehicles made today. Just that Ford, GM, and Chrysler don't make any of them.
    Bryan, Couple of Points...... I honestly don't know how much of the Cost of a gallon of Gas at the retail pump is Taxes. The way prices fluctuate here tells me that our Taxes are nowhere near yours....... I really don't want to leave Industry to regulate themselves, but there are some "Environmental Regulations" that are simply silly....... I certainly don't want to see anyone injured on the job, but again, there are areas that are grossly overregulated. For Example, the Cost to have a Shop install a new Drive Belt on the Deck of my Lawnmower is Triple what it was in 1998, even though the price of the Belt has increased by only a couple of Dollars. The Major portion of the increase is in the Labor Cost related to removing and replacing all the various Guard devices around all the moving parts. I do my own work, and have no problem swapping a Belt in about 15 minutes, even though my Shop says that it takes 50 minutes to one hour for them to do it. When I placed my Mower in Service it was about 10 pounds lighter that the delivery weight, because I took time to remove about a Dozen devices designed to protect me from myself....... Absolutely Stupid People can hurt themselves if they try hard enough, so penalizing all of us is a waste anyway. Last, Fuel Efficient Vehicles are just that BECAUSE they are deficient in every other area. The Fleet at our House is a Lincoln Town Car for Mrs. Harve @ 19city/24highway MPG, a Ford F150 4 door 4X4 Pickup for me @ 16-17 around here and 20-21 on the road, a Chevy Suburban for Sandy (Daughter) fuel same as the F150, and Last, a Dodge Ram 1500 4X4 Pickup @14city/17highway is the Reserve Rig for the Three of us. Everything we own is Capable of hitting 100mph, should we wish to do so. Our Vehicles are Big, Comfortable, Crashworthy, and just plain capable of doing whatever we need them to do. Battery, Solar, Wind, and everything else fails miserably when put up against Gasoline for Personal Highway use. All this talk about "Alternative" Vehicles is just Hot Air. There's nothing else that will do the same as what we have. I will not give up any of this for "Green" things. AND, I will not buy something that enriches a Foreign Corporation's Bottom Line, any more than is absolutely necessary.
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