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  1. #61
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Actually......Obama has stated he now considers fixing the oil spill his responsibility.

    Not that any conservatives have complimented him for that position.
    Because it is his responsibility. By law it is the Federal government's responsibility, making it his.

    So he is stating what people already knew......It just took him 6 weeks to do actually say it.

    Why would I compliment him for stating what I already knew to be true?

    It's funny to see the administration criticize BP for nto doing enough when they have the overall "authority." You can't have it both ways.

    On a sad note, I read this morning that oil has started washing ashore on some of the most beautiful beaches in the world along Gulf Islands National Seashore. We visit every couple of years and this area cannot catch a break. Hurricane Ivan desimated the area 6 years ago, then hit again by the outer edge of Katrina. Now this.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org


  2. #62
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSFD9302 View Post
    And no our taxes are not 80%. If they were the oil industry would not be making 12 billion profit a quarter.
    Which is, by percentage, far less than numerous other segments of the business world.

    You cannot simply take a number and say it is too much, you must look at the percentage of income that is profit - regardless of industry. Whether retail, manufacturing, healthcare, or farming, a profit is the goal of every business.

    Which brings me to ask the question no one will answer - what PERCENTAGE of income should you max out your profits at by law?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  3. #63
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Why would I compliment him for stating what I already knew to be true?
    Because you have blind hatred for him. Admit it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    It's funny to see the administration criticize BP for nto doing enough when they have the overall "authority." You can't have it both ways.
    Same with conservatives demanding less government interference with business and now blame the government for not forcing greater safety regulations on an industry that fought them.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post

    I'm just amazed at how hypocritical the American People are. We demand environmental regulations, better working conditions, work place protections but aren't willing to pay the cost of those things. Somehow it is OK to pollute another part of the world or support low wages in a foreign country.
    Scarecrow we do pay the cost of these things and then some. Take any energy company and take a look at there profits. Not Net take a look at Gross. If they do not have the money for safety and environmental areas that the government mandates why do they continue and hitting record profits? I am all for paying the stockholders dividends but dare they say and anyone say that the money is not already there for them to meet the regulations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post

    Which brings me to ask the question no one will answer - what PERCENTAGE of income should you max out your profits at by law?
    I believe before deregulation of electricity it was 7.5% for power companies.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Which is, by percentage, far less than numerous other segments of the business world.

    You cannot simply take a number and say it is too much, you must look at the percentage of income that is profit - regardless of industry. Whether retail, manufacturing, healthcare, or farming, a profit is the goal of every business.

    Which brings me to ask the question no one will answer - what PERCENTAGE of income should you max out your profits at by law?
    I'll answer that. 10%

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSFD9302 View Post
    Scarecrow we do pay the cost of these things and then some. Take any energy company and take a look at there profits. Not Net take a look at Gross. If they do not have the money for safety and environmental areas that the government mandates why do they continue and hitting record profits? I am all for paying the stockholders dividends but dare they say and anyone say that the money is not already there for them to meet the regulations.
    Yes, my point is that it isn't just greedy CEOs that demand high profits and lower costs. All Americans demand the very same thing. We have safety inventions and devices for the home that will better protect them. We have sprinkler system, alarm systems, etc. Yet how many homes have them. How many homes don't even have working smoke detectors or CO detectors. It is hypocritical to demand the highest safety standards for a corporation when you don't practice the same in your home.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Bryan, Couple of Points...... I honestly don't know how much of the Cost of a gallon of Gas at the retail pump is Taxes. The way prices fluctuate here tells me that our Taxes are nowhere near yours....... I really don't want to leave Industry to regulate themselves, but there are some "Environmental Regulations" that are simply silly....... I certainly don't want to see anyone injured on the job, but again, there are areas that are grossly overregulated. For Example, the Cost to have a Shop install a new Drive Belt on the Deck of my Lawnmower is Triple what it was in 1998, even though the price of the Belt has increased by only a couple of Dollars. The Major portion of the increase is in the Labor Cost related to removing and replacing all the various Guard devices around all the moving parts. I do my own work, and have no problem swapping a Belt in about 15 minutes, even though my Shop says that it takes 50 minutes to one hour for them to do it. When I placed my Mower in Service it was about 10 pounds lighter that the delivery weight, because I took time to remove about a Dozen devices designed to protect me from myself....... Absolutely Stupid People can hurt themselves if they try hard enough, so penalizing all of us is a waste anyway. Last, Fuel Efficient Vehicles are just that BECAUSE they are deficient in every other area. The Fleet at our House is a Lincoln Town Car for Mrs. Harve @ 19city/24highway MPG, a Ford F150 4 door 4X4 Pickup for me @ 16-17 around here and 20-21 on the road, a Chevy Suburban for Sandy (Daughter) fuel same as the F150, and Last, a Dodge Ram 1500 4X4 Pickup @14city/17highway is the Reserve Rig for the Three of us. Everything we own is Capable of hitting 100mph, should we wish to do so. Our Vehicles are Big, Comfortable, Crashworthy, and just plain capable of doing whatever we need them to do. Battery, Solar, Wind, and everything else fails miserably when put up against Gasoline for Personal Highway use. All this talk about "Alternative" Vehicles is just Hot Air. There's nothing else that will do the same as what we have. I will not give up any of this for "Green" things. AND, I will not buy something that enriches a Foreign Corporation's Bottom Line, any more than is absolutely necessary.
    I tend to agree with you on some points Harve. Our vehicle in Canada iis an 06 F250 with a V8 Vortec. Not needed nor used much as a truck, but I like it. I'm not thrilled about spending $100 to fill it, but if I choose to drive it, thats up to me. Gas is running between $3.50 and $4 a gallon here. North America doesn't control energy prices so much anymore so as long as everyone keeps on buying flat screen TVs, I phones, Barbie dolls, Asia will mostly influence what you pay for a gallon of gas. 2 bucks a gallon may well be a thing of the past.

    As far as environmental concerns, I share them with a lot of folks. I remember flying into Los Angeles back in the 70s. Looked like a heap of mashed potatoes and people were breathing that crap. Can still see the same thing flying into Mexico City or Tehran. Not really something we need to have again.

  9. #69
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    All you righties blaming this on not enough government being involved...priceless!!!


  10. #70
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    Actually, several European countries have some very good oil spill containment equipment. After the Erica broke apart off of France in the 90s, France developed their own system and its evidently quite effective. Norway is a world leader in developing this equipment and now it sounds like Holland has it as well. I know Australia has some as well as the Persian Gulf states. I'm mystified why the US wouldn't have a lot of it on hand considering the importance of the GOM oilfields.

  11. #71
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Because you have blind hatred for him. Admit it.
    Here we go again. You have accused me of this many times in the past and have never offered up proof of your statement. A typical tactic of yours - accusation without supporting data.

    You are blinded by your own ideology to separate a criticism and dislike for a person's policies and statements from your perception of hatred. I have never met the man. Never seen him in person. So how can I hate a person I have never seen? I eagerly await your typical non-answer.

    Another question for you to not answer - Why would I admit something that is not true? I'll wait for your typical non-answer on this one as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Same with conservatives demanding less government interference with business and now blame the government for not forcing greater safety regulations on an industry that fought them.
    However there is a fundamental flaw with your statement. When one has the power by law you are responsible - unlike a bunch of ideological blowhards.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  12. #72
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSFD9302 View Post
    I believe before deregulation of electricity it was 7.5% for power companies.
    Was this by law, or just what they averaged?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  13. #73
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I'll answer that. 10%
    Which most, if not all, petroleum companies have not even thought about approaching.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  14. #74
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Actually, several European countries have some very good oil spill containment equipment. After the Erica broke apart off of France in the 90s, France developed their own system and its evidently quite effective. Norway is a world leader in developing this equipment and now it sounds like Holland has it as well. I know Australia has some as well as the Persian Gulf states. I'm mystified why the US wouldn't have a lot of it on hand considering the importance of the GOM oilfields.
    However, my understanding is that an oil rig has never exploded, sunk, and broken the pipe off at the floor of the ocean. Capturing oil when it has reached the surface is a bit easier than covering a spewing leak a mile under water that has never been encountered before.

    Either way, one would have thought that someone, somewhere along the way might have thought about this happening.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  15. #75
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Nothing's changed in thirty plus years because Big Oil doesn't give a damn about anything but raking in the billions, including the environment. They will crush anyone that gets in their way. They have spent the last thirty years attempting to circumvent, avoid, and destroy any attempt at regulation, mostly with the help of the wonderful people on the right side of the political spectrum. How's that wild, wild west capitalism working out for you now, righties?

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Actually, several European countries have some very good oil spill containment equipment. After the Erica broke apart off of France in the 90s, France developed their own system and its evidently quite effective. Norway is a world leader in developing this equipment and now it sounds like Holland has it as well. I know Australia has some as well as the Persian Gulf states. I'm mystified why the US wouldn't have a lot of it on hand considering the importance of the GOM oilfields.
    It makes you wonder why hasn't Obama reached out to these folks for help. It seems the more this spill goes on the more political it is. No one cares about doing the right thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Nothing's changed in thirty plus years because Big Oil doesn't give a damn about anything but raking in the billions, including the environment. They will crush anyone that gets in their way. They have spent the last thirty years attempting to circumvent, avoid, and destroy any attempt at regulation, mostly with the help of the wonderful people on the right side of the political spectrum. How's that wild, wild west capitalism working out for you now, righties?
    You do realize that Millions of every day people are also invested in big oil. This comes from Mutual funds, Pension Plans, and 401k plans. Wouldn't surprise me to find out that you very own pension plan is also invested in oil among other things. Capitalism worked very well for the first 150 years in this country. After that they tried to socialize the system and broke it.

  18. #78
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    You do realize that Millions of every day people are also invested in big oil. This comes from Mutual funds, Pension Plans, and 401k plans. Wouldn't surprise me to find out that you very own pension plan is also invested in oil among other things. Capitalism worked very well for the first 150 years in this country. After that they tried to socialize the system and broke it.
    This only proves you have no clue about the history of capitalism in the United States. It worked very well for the gilded class. Which was about 1% of the population. For the rest, not so well.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  19. #79
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    How's that wild, wild west capitalism working out for you now, righties?
    Wow. We found one of the 3 people in the world that actually watch Rachel Maddow.


    As for capitalism, your alternative would be what?

    Socialism is not exactly helping the Europeans out right now is it? Greece, Spain, France, and Portugal are all having difficulty - and they have vastly more socialist ideologies in their government than ours.

    Communism? Never has worked out in the long run. Russia failed. China has had to "open up" and is now more capitalist than communist - except in the way the government is run. Same with Cuba. North Korea has long ago abandoned Communism and moved further beyond it.

    So if you loathe capitalism so much, what - EXACTLY - is your alternative? Capitalism is like every other system of economics and government. It looks great on paper, but when you add in reality and humanity's quest for money, power, and greed......it falls away from its potential.

    Alas we will never know the answer to this question, because you have placed me on your ignore list. So open minded of you.
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 06-07-2010 at 09:13 AM.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  20. #80
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This only proves you have no clue about the history of capitalism in the United States. It worked very well for the gilded class. Which was about 1% of the population. For the rest, not so well.
    So that is how Andrew Carnegie grew from a factory worker to become wealthy - then gave almost every dime away.

    Joe Kennedy rose from a simple Boston political family, became incredibly wealthy, spoke in support of Adolph Hitler (there's a nice little gem left out of most historical conversations) and against Jews. How shameful of a Democrat to do so.

    Michael Dell has built one of the largest computer manufacturers in the world.

    Ross Perot built a multi billion dollar company - son of a cotton broker.

    Hell, even our President has risen from a middle-class upbringing to become a multi-millionaire.

    William Jefferson Clinton has risen from very humble beginnings and is now an incredibly wealthy man. Done so through capitalistic investments, book deals, and making $150,000 per speech. Yup, capitalism sure has hurt him.

    I will ask you the same question I asked of Noz - and you will not answer it because you rarely do answer direct questions of you. What is your alternative to capitalism?

    It may not be perfect, but like I said - when you put into place man's natural tendency for money, greed, and power any financial or governmental system is going to get derailed from its intended goals.

    By the way - still waiting for you to answer the questions I asked of you yesterday. You won't because you are a coward, but I would love to hear your answers. Instead of insults. You deride people for putting this: in their posts and compare them to your 12 year old neighbor - but you opting to not answer questions because you don't care for the poster or the question is just like being a 12 year old.

    The hypocricy from you never stops does it? Another question that will go unanswered.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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