Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Polk County, Florida
    Posts
    59

    Default Firefighting Ambulance

    I know this topic has been discussed at length, but my department looking at ambulances that have some limited firefighting capability (pump, water and/or CAFS, etc). My question is simple: Does anyone know of a department that has operated transport ambulances with firefighting capabilites for an extended period of time (5+ years)? I know of some that have experimented with them, but to my knowledge they reverted back to the more traditional ambulances (transport rescues).

    We'd like to make a well-informed decision before moving in this direction.

    Thanks,

    Mike Linkins
    Polk County (FL) Fire Rescue
    Last edited by mikelinkins; 05-31-2010 at 08:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Try contacting San Marcos Ca. Fire Dept. At one time they operated one of these transport rigs with a pump and water source as a stop gap measure till they could open a full service fire station. They staffed it with an engineer and a firefighter if i am not mistaken. Not sure if they still operate it or not.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    470

    Default

    I don't have any knowledge about this myself (we have just regular ambulances, but we respond and grab a line from an engine if we're one of the first on scene), but it sounding interesting to me. I did a little searching and found this article:

    http://www.firerescue1.com/apparatus...-Firefighting/

    The ambulance ordered only has a CAFS, not a full pump. It looks like Violet Township FD has only had theirs a few years, but you might be able to contact them and get some of their research to save you some time.

    Good luck and feel free to post any links you may have found. I'm pretty sure my dept wouldn't need one, but it's a neat idea.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    29

    Default

    I know Seminole County (fl) purchased a rescue (R-65) with a pump and small tank. My understanding is it was removed and put in a different unit, you may want to give them a shout.

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Posts
    396

    Default

    Strongsville, Ohio has been running "Squ-umpers" (Squad/pumpers) for a few years. http://www.strongsville.org/content/fire_contact.asp
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

  6. #6
    Reliance

    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Yarmouth, N.S. Canada
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Check out http://www.braunambulances.com/ for the Braun Patriot.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    Violet Twp Ohio near Columbus has
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,531

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikelinkins View Post
    I know this topic has been discussed at length, but my department looking at ambulances that have some limited firefighting capability (pump, water and/or CAFS, etc).
    Why??

    This is even dumber than the Quint concept. Yes, you can get a ladder truck with a pump and hose lines, but most people buy them thinking they are getting 2 for one. You are not, it will only be able to function as one or the other on the fireground.

    Same with this hair brained idea. Lets say the "ambulance" gets to an auto accident first and decides they need to lay a line. What are you gonna do with the patients? "Sorry....we have to roll this hose up before we can transport you." One or the other.

    If it was such a great idea, everyone would be doing it. There is not anyone in your organization any smarter than people in all the others.

    It's a huge waste of taxpayer dollars. Nothing more.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    not to mention it adds money to high mileage abused vehicles that have a shorter life cycle than most structural engines.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    191

    Default

    RK,

    I agree that for urban / suburban departments that are more or less guranteed to "fill the rune card" they make absolutely no sense.

    However in many rural areas the only staffed and therefore guranteed to roll piece of apparatus is the ambulance. I can personally recount a call where a small cafs system or something of that nature ould have been the difference in life or death.

    I know of an agency that provides 911 ems and vehicle extrication for an over 100 square mile territory comprised of several townships with all but one have volunteer fire coverage. Depending on the day and time they are not getting out the door in any reasonable timeframe. They carry a full set of extrication tools on an extended cab International chassis ambulance. Fire portection however limited would be a nice feature....
    FTM-PTB

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,531

    Default

    Ben,

    I respect your opinion, but disagree. I don't see how it ever is a very good option.

    The true problem is that politicians need to take fire protection as seriously as police and EMS. Every town that I have ever seen with a volunteer fire department has a paid police force.

    I simply cannot see the practicality of having rescue tools and firefighting equipment on an ambulance that shares the duty of transporting the patients.

    But hey, whatever they end up with.....I don't live or work there.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Polk County, Florida
    Posts
    59

    Default

    The debate continues in our department. Although skeptical, I have to admit that the idea has merit in a few areas of our county.

    Thanks for the leads on the other departments. I'll attempt to contact them for further information.

  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    75

    Default

    During one of my trips to Pierce, I came across this rig which I was told was being sent to Utah. Not certain about it but the guy I was with indicated these are common in Utah. The one photo shows the outside of the rig (which I originally thought was a command post/engine), but the second photo shows the interior with locking mechanism for the cot.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    109

    Default

    That would be the rear portion of the cab, and the cot would be loaded in from the side of the truck, right?

  15. #15
    ...
    ... is offline
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    420

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire562 View Post
    During one of my trips to Pierce, I came across this rig which I was told was being sent to Utah. Not certain about it but the guy I was with indicated these are common in Utah. The one photo shows the outside of the rig (which I originally thought was a command post/engine), but the second photo shows the interior with locking mechanism for the cot.
    I'd like to see more pictures of that rig.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    109

    Default

    I would too... if the patient is in the rear portion of the cab, I am curious how difficult it would be to load a cot in there.
    This large of an apparatus may not work well for most, but it probably has a niche in the bigger cities where it would be left on the street.
    I have seen the squads with pumps that Strongsville, Oh uses and they are nice. However, I do agree that you could run into a delayed trip to the hospital due to re-loading hose back on the truck. Probably other ways around that issue though.

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    75

    Default

    I may have one or two more photos of the engine, but they are on my other computer. I will check tomorrow.

    There were double doors that you can see on the other side for loading and "I think" there was a pneumatic lift mechanism to assist in lifting the cot to the floor level. The rear of the cab is MUCH higher than the rear of an ambulance and the lift raised the head and I assume the personnel would have to manually lift the feet.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bear DE
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Sycamore Township has had rigs of this nature as well. Below is a link to the Township's webpage; if I find the other pictures I've seen of these rigs I will post them.

    http://www.sycamoretownship.org/Apparatus.cfm

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Medic units that are fire trucks

    Fire trucks that are medic units

    I think I am going to thow up

    And i ride a quint!! in quint city!!

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Monroeville, PA USA
    Posts
    327

    Default

    North Huntingdon Rescue 8 has had one for about a year or so..not the 5 years youur asking for..but it's a start.

    Personaly, I don't agree with it. I was told they have it to use on MVA's and so on...but what good is it if it's on the way to a hospital and it's needed. I can see if they put it on their rescue, but on a gut bucket?
    It takes a little intelligence to enjoy humor,satire & wit, but none to be offended by it.

    It take more than a new Leather Helmet to make you a good officer

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    300

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Ben,

    I respect your opinion, but disagree. I don't see how it ever is a very good option.

    The true problem is that politicians need to take fire protection as seriously as police and EMS. Every town that I have ever seen with a volunteer fire department has a paid police force.

    I simply cannot see the practicality of having rescue tools and firefighting equipment on an ambulance that shares the duty of transporting the patients.

    But hey, whatever they end up with.....I don't live or work there.
    How do you feel about rescue pumpers (not pumpers with rescue tools) I am talking about 43 foot long trucks that are full length heavy rescues with a 2000GPM pump added in. (you lose the walk in component to the tank and hose bed, but do get some big compartments up front).

    My department had one of the first ever built (every manufacturer had to do hand drawings because they had never done this before). It works quite well for our purposes. While it is not quite the same as a medic engine or a quint, it is a combination.

    Remember, just because no one thought of it before does not mean it is a bad idea. Our's was'nt; it was an innovation that is now popular.

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,970

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RoofTopTrucky View Post
    North Huntingdon Rescue 8 has had one for about a year or so..not the 5 years youur asking for..but it's a start.

    Personaly, I don't agree with it. I was told they have it to use on MVA's and so on...but what good is it if it's on the way to a hospital and it's needed. I can see if they put it on their rescue, but on a gut bucket?
    I believe they just recently took delivery of one or two more of the same type of unit. Once they complete the fleet transition, the on the way to the hospital thing won't be much of an issue.

    Additionally, as I understand the situation out there, this addition to their ambulances might not have happened if the response from the VFDs in their area was quicker and more consistent.

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie82 View Post
    How do you feel about rescue pumpers (not pumpers with rescue tools) I am talking about 43 foot long trucks that are full length heavy rescues with a 2000GPM pump added in. (you lose the walk in component to the tank and hose bed, but do get some big compartments up front).

    My department had one of the first ever built (every manufacturer had to do hand drawings because they had never done this before). It works quite well for our purposes. While it is not quite the same as a medic engine or a quint, it is a combination.

    Remember, just because no one thought of it before does not mean it is a bad idea. Our's was'nt; it was an innovation that is now popular.
    I think it depends on how your rescue companies are set up and their roles on the fire ground. If they are a rescue company that just acts as a rescue company on auto extrications, tech rescue, and other type calls; however on the fire ground the act as a regular engine company. Having a regular still district they run as an engine. I can see it being workable. Now if they are acting as a rescue company on the fire ground performing searches, RIT, etc. Then why do they need all that extra stuff for engine work. Their job on the fire ground is not to conduct fire attack, their skills, tools and talents are needed for other jobs.

    I dont have a clue what your rescue/engine looks like or how it is designed so i can not speak for that truck. However I have seen plenty of rescue/engines that do not function well. They are either to short to carry all the need equipment of a true heavy rescue, or they are so big that they are not compact enough to work as an engine (getting down tight alleys/streets.

    My largest grip with alot of the rescue/engines is the height of the rear hose bed. On some of them the hose bed is 8-9 feet off the ground. Add in the rescue style compartments the height of the truck increases.

    With that being said. I have seen other rescue/engines that are set up very nicely. A department near me runs several. They call them squads. They also have regular engine companies. They function as an engine on fire runs and have a run area. This department runs one of the busier interstates on the east coast(Hampton Roads, VA). They get dispatched to MVCs and conduct most of the extrication work. This frees up the heavy rescue for more complex extrications.

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    300

    Default

    The truck functions as an engine on some firegrounds and as a rescue/RIT company on others. It depends upon the box. It has more rescue equipment than most and is well equipped engine. It also does all the technical rescue as well.
    Last edited by charlie82; 06-06-2010 at 12:54 AM.

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Sorry Guys! I thought I had a couple of more photos of that rig, but don't. I did not take a lot as I "personally" thought it was a huge waste to tie up a $400K+ rig to transport. If you are a rural district, I would rather convert an Excursion or Suburban as a potential transport vehicle than taking an engine out of service for an extended transport. Huge cab area that made the engine even longer. Everyone has needs and selects/specs rigs to meet those needs. I simply did not get it.

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Ambulance Rollover
    By coldfront in forum Kentucky
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-01-2010, 01:16 AM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-16-2009, 09:25 PM
  3. Trinidad--Fatal Ambulance Crash
    By RalphSafety in forum Fire Wire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-22-2005, 06:04 PM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-24-2003, 08:53 AM
  5. Firefighting Tradition-A Wonderful Story
    By NJFFSA16 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-27-2002, 07:30 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register