Thread: pumper-tanker help please
06-03-2010, 02:33 PM #1
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Olive Branch, MS
pumper-tanker help please
I know that pumper-tankers have been a hot topic but we are in the market for one that has a 3,000 gallon tank, 1500 gpm pump and a custom chassis. We are not getting this truck in a Grant . We are paying for it ourselves. I was hoping I could get some suggestions and possibly some specs or pics. You can email me at email@example.com
06-03-2010, 04:21 PM #2
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Are you looking for a standard pumper tanker? If you're looking for a nurse tanker here is where to go!
http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115439 (nurse tanker set-up)
Also check out the porta-tank rack!
Last edited by FireRescue61; 06-03-2010 at 04:27 PM.
06-03-2010, 05:06 PM #3
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
Here is an option:
Sutphen Pumper / Tanker - This unit features a Sutphen Tandem axle custom chassis with 500HP ISM Cummins, 15” raised roof and seating for 6. The Apparatus also has a HALE 2000 GPM QTWO pump, Foam Pro 2001 system, 3 speed lays, front and rear suctions and deck gun. The generator is a Smart Power 15KW. The tank holds 2500 gallons of water and 30 gallons of Foam. Aluminum extruded body, ROM roll up doors and Zico ladder rack complete this vehicle.
More info at:
Last edited by 93Cobra; 06-04-2010 at 08:57 AM.
06-04-2010, 04:46 AM #4
Next time, resize your pic.
Nice rig though.
FM1I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.
Originally Posted by EastKyFF
06-04-2010, 08:56 AM #5
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
Done - sorry about that!!
06-08-2010, 11:39 AM #6
Here you go...
HME has a demo on their website http://www.hmeahrensfox.com/Demos/
Look at 21695. It's not exactly what you're looking for, but will give you some good ideas.
06-08-2010, 12:23 PM #7
06-08-2010, 12:37 PM #8
Just watched the video. That was pretty impressive. However, I don't believe that was a 17-year old explorer. First, red helmet. Second, do we let explorers pump? This girl clearly has experience, and knew what she was doing. Nice job!
06-08-2010, 01:47 PM #9
Why would we not teach a 17 year old explorer how to pump?
06-08-2010, 02:30 PM #10
My knee-jerk response is, for the same reason we don't let them drive. That's an awful lot of money behind that pump panel. I don't disagree that we wouldn't teach them, but to let them go like that on their own? That's an awful lot of responsibility and liability on the Fire Department. If I'm wrong (it's happened once before), then I apologize. That truly was very impressive!
06-08-2010, 02:56 PM #11
I have a couple of thoughts on that,
1. Student/Juniors will AMAZE you. Give them LOTS of responsiblity, but supervise, and they will do great things. Not all of them, just like with any other group, but some will amaze you.
2. There was supervision. There was a person over watching the tanker, backing them in, who was constantly watching her. There was the person running the camera. Who knows who else behind the camera. I am pretty confident that the person with the camera would have dropped everything if that fancy nurse tanker was about to be hurt.
3. This was not her first rodeo. Very obvious. I bet they have drilled this often, and this was either a dog and pony show, or it was a test for her after repeated drills.
I am impressed, young people like that renew my faith.
06-08-2010, 03:00 PM #12
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Westchester County. NY
I will try you off list.
06-09-2010, 12:10 PM #13
fyi: the female explorer does not operate the vehicles at fires or incidents.
it was only done for the video.Originally Posted by madden01
"and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."
06-09-2010, 02:22 PM #14
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Pa Wilds
Tankers, when used for shuttle need to be kept rolling. That is, any time the wheels aren't rolling, you are not moving water. The dump time and fill time are critical elements in an effective water shuttle.
We have tried filling with 5" ldh, and find that there must be a way to rapidly empty the last 5 feet of the fill line so that it can be unhooked easily from the fill connection. At least a 2" drain line with a 1/4 turn valve is needed. We have had slightly better success with filling using two 3" lines with 2 1/2" Storz connections. Your actual fill rates need to be above 1,000 gpm and need rapid connect and disconnect means. This rapid fill requires a large vent with a safety system so that if the driver forgets to open a power vent, the pressure does not rupture the tank. Your 3,000 gal tanker must be filled in less than 3 1/2 minutes from stop to roll. The driver must stay in the cab, and roll as soon as the connections are broken. Treat the vent like a nozzle, and calculate the pressure expected when filling. Lets say that you are filling at 1500 gpm. A 6" vent will act like a nozzle when the tank is filled and begns to over flow. We can calculate the resulting pressure from the standard nozzle equation. Q = 29.7 x D x D x sq. rt. of P
1,500 = 29.7 x 6 x 6 x sq rt of P then P = 1.968 psi or about 2 psi. This doesn't seem like very much, but if the top of the tank is 5 ft by 10 ft long it contains 7,200 sq in or it will put a force of 14,400 lbs under the top of the tank. Don't let the manufacturer tell you that a 4" vent is adequate. Tell him how fast you want to fill and have them make their engineer size the vent/s accordingly.
Some manufacturers will advocate "top fill" or want to place check valves in the fill lines. What will you do when you want to nurse the engine for small fires? With a check valve in the fill line or a top fill, you will need to set the drop tank every time. The dump time must be under 2 minutes for the entire load, and the drop pond must be capable of taking the entire load for dump and run. It is unlikely that the manufacturer will provide an adequate size line from tank to pump to be able to pump off at 1500 gpm. A minimum of two (2) - 4" lines will be needed from tank to pump, if you want to pump off 3,000 gal in 2 minutes. If you have the attack engine working out of a 3,000 gal drop tank, it is possible to refill the apparatus tank while the tanker is dumping, but the attack engine must have a tank fill line that can move tank volume (say 1,000 gal) into the tank in 2 minutes. (500 gpm). Large dump capability (12" square) must be used to get 3,000 gal off in under 2 minutes. You should be able to dump left, right & rear with extensions to hit the tank. There needs to be at least three (3) large easily visible LED tank level lights that can be observed at both the fill site and the dump site. Critical to allow the fill engine to slow down before hitting the full mark. At the dump site, the engine needs to monitor the water supply when nursing.
If you set your attack engine up with a rear suction, then a 6" x two 2 1/2" siamese will allow the connection of two 3" x 2 1/2" suction hoses from the engine to the rear of the tanker. These same suction hoses can be used on a portable pump if the engine is sop equipped.
Your SOP's must require this apparatus be either completely full or completely empty before being operated on the highway. You need to contact your city engineer and the county engineer to assess the bridge and road weight capacity before writing the specifications for the tanker. Think - Chassis = 17,000 lbs; Pump & Piping = 4,000 lbs; Tank and water = 10 lbs per gallon .. or 30,000 lbs; then add personnel & equipment. Probably around 55,000 lbs when loaded. You will need to consider any steep pulls like filling in the river or stream and then climbing out of the bank or rise up to the fire. Horsepower should be close to 500 HP to adequately pull, but should have the road speed kept under 65 mph. Especially on rural roads, the drivers must be adequately trained in recovering if a wheel drops off the pavement. We have entirely too many roll-overs with tanker apparatus caused by the Gotta Go! - Gotta Go! mentality. Automatic transmissions lull the driver into thinking he is going slower than he really is. When you are forced into a standard shift, you have a better appreciation for the gear and thus the approximate speed of the rig.
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