Hose Line Drill

[ltkeith25]

Looking for ideas for a drill using uncharged hoselines inside buildings. Whats a good way to train in open areas like an empty warehouse looking for a vic in heavy smoke?
One idea: I might have them pull lines and enter our middle school and tell them its in the basement and see how they do getting the hose down the stairs, around corners etc.
Looking for different ideas to keep the guys busy.

[Dickey]

You are limited by your imagination and your budget for training smoke.

We have always kept our eyes peeled for abandoned or going to be razed buildings to smoke it up and do search and rescue drills in. We have done it in the station too, set up a maze and smoke it up. Try looking for commercial buildings that have been abandoned or went out of business. Check with the building owners to see if you can do some smoke drills inside.

We practice pulling out victims, MAYDAY drills, self rescue drills etc. Like I said, you are limited to your imagination.

A good MAYDAY drill is put a firefighter in the middle of a large open room, have the SCBA tank low on air, leave him alone and see what he does. Does he activate his PASS?? How does he react to being alone and low on air? How do they try and get out? It really puts someone in a situation they have never been in and some might actually freak out a bit, a couple of my guys did. This will make them think of a plan if they ever get into that situation again.

[Bones42]

Looking for ideas for a drill using uncharged hoselines inside buildings. Whats a good way to train in open areas like an empty warehouse looking for a vic in heavy smoke?

Guess I am a little confused. Are you looking for hose stretching drills or search drills? You may find many (including mine) departments that don't search for victims using hose lines.

I only ask because my search suggestions may confuse you since there are no hoses involved.

And my hose stretch ideas may not cover your victim search wants...

[Eng34FF]

We use the engine bay to simulate large open area searches. We can either leave the apparatus in to provide obsticles or take them our for a large open area. Since we can't smoke up that big of a space, we use either glad press-n-seal over the mask or turn the hood around backwards.

[FWDbuff]

We have always kept our eyes peeled for abandoned or going to be razed buildings to smoke it up and do search and rescue drills in.

A bit off-topic, but this is why everyone needs to make sure their Fire Chief and/or Fire Marshal work hand-in-hand with the Code Enforcement Office. The Code Officers are the ones who will be blessing any demolition permits- and have the names and the numbers of all the contractors or property owners involved. Anytime I get a demo permit, I always forward an email to the fire chief with the phone numbers of the parties and let him take it from there. Usually they will have smoke drills, and once that is done, some Smash-And-Bash drills (forcible entry, walls and ceilings, vertical and horizontal ventilation, trench cuts, breaching concrete, etc etc etc....) Usually you just have to give the owner a letter releasing them from any liability, and toss any debris back into the structure at the end of the night!

[ltkeith25]

Looking for hose stretching drills. I want to just practice working with hose inside. Trying to simulate pulling lines a long way into buildings, around corners, up/down stairs, etc...We might have some search for victims in an very big open area like the gym. Put a victim in the middle and see how they do finding them and removing them. Just looking for some more things to add or different way of doing it. Hope this clears it up.

[Bones42]

Ok, add in some doors. If the door is not chocked/blocked open, shut it on the hose.

Have them extend the hose line, adding a length or 2.

Give them no direction and see if they can communicate the need for more hose, charging the line, etc.

We have used an air compressor to "charge" the hose. Doesn't add the weight of water, but gives the line some stiffness.

Do you stretch dry lines or are they charged before advancing?

If you can get the air compressor charged line, break a coupling apart in the middle and see what they do with the loss of "water".

[ffmedcbk1]

q: are you using the drill for green firefighters or is it a pretty seasoned group?

using the compressed air in the line is ok if you want just movement but it fails to simulate the weight of a real hose. if you can use a charged hose, tape or strap the shut off(and you need to remove the tape at the end of the drill, then double check it) on the end of the nozzle so it won't inadvertantly getting opened. use only the amount of men you'll have on the first due and then you can add subsequent companies as if they arrived in time order. my suggestion is the 2.5" line bc that is what they should be using in that type of occupancy anyways.

thoughts for a green group:
build on dry runs, then go wet, then use the smoke machines so it will make it more realistic too. use them in differnt locations in the building and have them stretch to those locations without guidence. this will help teach locatating the fire and some smoke reading (though it is fake smoke). enforce the company officer 360 view as possible (on big buildings they may not make it all the way around).

once the engine company basics are done then build out into support functions.

for the seasoned group:
go for the smoke for locating the fire and stretches initially. if you can put a force entry training device at the attack position so they can practice the multitask approach as they would in a real incident.

[FiremanLyman]

Looking for hose stretching drills. I want to just practice working with hose inside. Trying to simulate pulling lines a long way into buildings, around corners, up/down stairs, etc...We might have some search for victims in an very big open area like the gym. Put a victim in the middle and see how they do finding them and removing them. Just looking for some more things to add or different way of doing it. Hope this clears it up.

Go to any multi-story parking garage and deploy you high rise bundle in the stairwell.

[zzyyzx]

This is good for green or rusty guys...

Get a home or building with some twisting hallways and stairs. Start by flaking your normal preconnect outside. Have the participants simulate arriving on scene by doing a 360 and the instructor tells them "flames out that window, someone is calling from help from that room, etc.). Complete the following iterations:
1- Have them advance the uncharged line and then call for water.
2- Charge the line to normal operating PSI (gate it at the pump) and then advance the line.
3- Charge the line to max PSI (gate it at the nozzle) and then advance the line.
4- Repeat with a 2.5".

The second and third iteration are good to do with your engineers so you can remind them how much of a difference the extra PSI makes in the flexibility of the hose. Watch for the companies placing people at sharp bends to help advance hose and maintain contact.

[ffmedcbk1]

Go to any multi-story parking garage and deploy you high rise bundle in the stairwell.

i second that idea, also use the stairwell for wellhole and up the stairs stretches... good times

[PAFire24]

Ok, add in some doors. If the door is not chocked/blocked open, shut it on the hose.

Have them extend the hose line, adding a length or 2.

Give them no direction and see if they can communicate the need for more hose, charging the line, etc.

We have used an air compressor to "charge" the hose. Doesn't add the weight of water, but gives the line some stiffness.

Do you stretch dry lines or are they charged before advancing?

If you can get the air compressor charged line, break a coupling apart in the middle and see what they do with the loss of "water".

Hmmmm....never heard using an air compressor to simulate a charged line. How did you guys set that up?

[zzyyzx]

We have caps that fit over the ends of the hose. One has an air inlet with a shut off valve. We have an adapter that uses the same size air hose as our air bags. It can be pressurized from an air tank or the cascade on a rescue.

On another note, we use an air pressurized hose line in water rescue.

[FyrnResQ]

Take traffic cones and make them weave through a maze of them. If you knock a cone over, you loose points. It takes coordination, team work, and communication between the members.

[PaladinKnight]

I am a bit confused...

It seems you are combining two different skills.

Fire Attack is fire attack.

Rescue is rescue.

If you are going to retrieve downed firefighters, your RIT isn't dragging hose, they are most likely following it, or going to the PASS. They will be carrying tools. An additional hose might be deployed, but should be a different team.

If your are searching for fire (fire attack), then your hose team is dragging hose.

Is it possible for a hose team to encounter victims? Of course... but if the information on arrival involves entrapment, then you need to perform both search and fire attack.... unless you don't have enough people.

It does not hurt to throw a victim into fire attack hose training once in a while, but try to make sure that the training hits the goals and they get very good at all skills. They need to learn to adapt and overcome... and they must learn to think and stay calm.

There is much debate about a 4-person Engine Company first priority upon arrival. Many will say they will commit to a rescue without regard to the 2in/2 out and without providing water supply or even hose deployment. You must be careful how you train. There is what you should do, and what you would do. They sometimes are not the same. But you should never endorse something that runs counter to accepted standards. That's another class.

[ltkeith25]

I am a bit confused...

It seems you are combining two different skills.

Fire Attack is fire attack.

Rescue is rescue.

If you are going to retrieve downed firefighters, your RIT isn't dragging hose, they are most likely following it, or going to the PASS. They will be carrying tools. An additional hose might be deployed, but should be a different team.

If your are searching for fire (fire attack), then your hose team is dragging hose.

Is it possible for a hose team to encounter victims? Of course... but if the information on arrival involves entrapment, then you need to perform both search and fire attack.... unless you don't have enough people.

It does not hurt to throw a victim into fire attack hose training once in a while, but try to make sure that the training hits the goals and they get very good at all skills. They need to learn to adapt and overcome... and they must learn to think and stay calm.

There is much debate about a 4-person Engine Company first priority upon arrival. Many will say they will commit to a rescue without regard to the 2in/2 out and without providing water supply or even hose deployment. You must be careful how you train. There is what you should do, and what you would do. They sometimes are not the same. But you should never endorse something that runs counter to accepted standards. That's another class.





There will be some guys doing search and other guys doing hose advance. We have a good idea for the search part it was just the hose part that we were trying to get ideas on.

[MemphisE34a]

Looking for different ideas to keep the guys busy.

"Busy work" SUCKS. Just saying.

[Squad1LT]

lol, Tru Dat