Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stepenville, TX
    Posts
    10

    Default Told Truth/Failed Poly!

    Hey everyone,
    I recently went through the hiring process at a local fire department. I was #1 on the written test, #1 through my physical and oral interview, and #1 after the chief interview. They said I had a job as long as I passed my Polygraph, well you guessed it I didnt pass. Im a clean cut guy with a good head on my shoulders and I told nothing but the God's honest truth in the exam. My question is what can I do to help calm my nerves on this issue and not think about it next time I'm taking one. Any help will be greatly appreciated and does anyone know anyone else that this has happened to and what did they do.


  2. #2
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Is there a process to appeal the polygraph results?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stepenville, TX
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Not that I know of, they pretty much said sorry you should"nt have lied try again next year. This is what makes me mad the most because the chief and all the firefighters in the oral interview liked me but all that goes out the window and they take the advice of a 2 wired machine and never bothered to check my refrences. I don't know I understand the reasoning behind it but I can't help to think that there are a whole lot of legit guys and gals out there that have had their dreams crushed due to this pre-historic computer....I'll come down off my horse now lol.

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,797

    Default

    it would be nice to know what the machine said you lied about!!!

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    2,466

    Default

    Yea, was this a polygraph or a voice stress analyser (VSA).

    Did you do anything to prepare for this segment of the hiring process?

    Was this a conditional job offer contingent on passing the medical, poly or psych?
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    470

    Default

    Most people talk too much during a polygraph. That, besides the basic nervousness of such an exam, can easily lead to a result of "discrepancies found." Obviously, besides telling the truth, answer the question concisely and then be quiet. Polygraphers (and background investigators) love to use silence to their advantage. Most candidates get antsy and start talking. This can lead down paths that end in no good ways. Answer the question and calmly wait for the next question, no matter how long they sit and stare.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    2,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by doss View Post
    Hey everyone,
    I recently went through the hiring process at a local fire department. I was #1 on the written test, #1 through my physical and oral interview, and #1 after the chief interview. They said I had a job as long as I passed my Polygraph, well you guessed it I didnt pass. Im a clean cut guy with a good head on my shoulders and I told nothing but the God's honest truth in the exam. My question is what can I do to help calm my nerves on this issue and not think about it next time I'm taking one. Any help will be greatly appreciated and does anyone know anyone else that this has happened to and what did they do.
    I hear this all too often. If polygraphs are so great why arenít the results admissible in court cases? Criminologists say lie detector tests pass 10 percent of the liars and fail 20 percent of the truth-tellers.

    If there is a polygraph in your future hiring, why not be prepared to understand the process?
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stepenville, TX
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBob View Post
    Yea, was this a polygraph or a voice stress analyser (VSA).

    Did you do anything to prepare for this segment of the hiring process?

    Was this a conditional job offer contingent on passing the medical, poly or psych?
    I didnt do much to prepare. I read a few thing on the internet but thought what could go wrong as long as I tell the truth. Since then I have been researching some things on polygraphs. This job was contingent upon passing the poly and medical exam.

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    2,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by doss View Post
    I didnt do much to prepare. I read a few thing on the internet but thought what could go wrong as long as I tell the truth. Since then I have been researching some things on polygraphs. This job was contingent upon passing the poly and medical exam.
    What if you don't Pass the Conditional offer Medical?
    What do you do if you have not passed a part of the medical, poly or psyc test?
    Pre-employment medical examinations must comply with the Federal Americans with Disabilities Act and in California with the California Fair Employment Act Section 7294.0(d) of title 2 of the California Code of Regulations states:
    (2) Where the results of such medical examination would result in disqualification, an applicant or employee may submit independent medical opinions for consideration before a final determination on disqualification is made.
    What this states is that if you have not passed a medical psychological test or poly that was part of a medical, you should be given the chance to obtain a second opinion. Cities and agencies might not be aware of this law. Most people are unaware that they can appeal the decision.
    If youíre given the chance for a second opinion you will probably have to pay for it yourself. Donít let them send you to another evaluator down the hall at the same agency to for another evaluation.

    If you pass the second evaluation donít fall for the trap of the agency wanting a third evaluator to look at both reports and pass final judgment.

    Donít be surprised if the hiring agency refuses to hire you even if you pass the second poly. Again they could cause you to take legal action to make it happen.

    Never sign a form on a retest with the agency you have been to before allowing them to release your original evaluation to anyone they want. In many areas there is only one agency doing the evaluations. Many candidates were sent to an agency from a fire department and have failed. Another department will offer them a job conditional on the medical including the psych and poly. What do you think your chances are of passing the poly with the same firm? Duh. If you are in this situation request another agency even if you have to pay and travel to another city.
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

  10. #10
    Forum Member DarkStarr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    93

    Default

    ive gotten burned (haha) on a job application before due to this as well.. total crap. they didnt even tell me what i 'lied' about.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    55

    Default

    Somethings to remember when taking a lie detector test. The questions they ask you implies about you and your family. Such as do you have a problem about Gambling? I was asked this and of course I don't because I gamble twice a year. I failed that question twice. The third time I told him about my dad that gambles constantly. After I revealed that I passed. Same thing with Drugs.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stepenville, TX
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBob View Post
    Yea, was this a polygraph or a voice stress analyser (VSA).

    Did you do anything to prepare for this segment of the hiring process?

    Was this a conditional job offer contingent on passing the medical, poly or psych?
    Have you gotten a chance since then to take another. If so how did it go.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    83

    Default

    FOIA is your friend. You might be able to figure out exactly what triggered the "deception" results.

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    2,466

    Default Are Polygraphs Lying to Us?

    Being prepared for every step of the hiring process before you show up will place you in a better position to end up wearing a badge than being caught flat footed wondering what happened when the career you have been intensely pursuing evaporates before you eyes.

    If polygraphs are so great why arenít the results admissible in court cases? Criminologists say lie detector tests pass 10 percent of the liars and fail 20 percent of the truth-tellers.

    The first time I ever had contact and talked to Scott was 45 minutes after he got the call that he had failed his poly. Needless to say he was devastated. When I asked him what he had done to prepare for his polygraph he said he used the free information from some of the ďexpertsĒ on some of the firefighter Internet forums. Using those guidelines he said he went in and spilled his guts, just like going to confession.

    Just a few minutes into our conversation he realized that he had become too familiar with the evaluator, got chatty, volunteered too much beyond what was requested, was really nervous but thought everything was going just great.

    Scott wrote: I chose to take this test knowing I had nothing to hide and being truthful was the best route I could take. The next test I take, I assure you I will be better prepared.

    I believe Scott is only referring to understanding the process better. Iím a firm believer in preparing for every step in the hiring process before you get there.

    According to Doug Williamson a 35-year veteran polygraph evaluator from www.polygraph.com ďIt is a very serious mistake to believe that you will pass your polygraph or CVSA tests just because you are telling the truth - they are not "lie detectors". Scientific research proves that simple nervousness will cause a truthful person to fail!Ē

    I talked to Scott after he checked out polygraph.com. He realized he had not been as prepared as he could have been before his polygraph and revealed information beyond what was required. If he had it to do over again he would have been better prepare on the process before his evaluation and could have had a better opportunity of passing without compromising his truthfulness.
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Gippsland Victoria
    Posts
    7

    Default

    You have to take polygraph tests? What's the purpose behind this?

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber Chief_Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by magenta View Post
    You have to take polygraph tests? What's the purpose behind this?
    It's usually a police department thing but I've seen a lot of fire departments starting to require it as well. Ostensibly the reasoning is that many firefighters work around narcotics (if their dept has medics) or are in situations where they could steal something like a patient's wallet or rifling through their safe after a fire. They want to use the poly as a way to see if you're a truthful person. Unfortunately the OP's situation is precisely why these tests shouldn't be allowed. But what are you going to do until they're declared illegal on a national level? You either take the test or find another department to apply to. I for one have chosen to never apply for any position that requires a polygraph. Telling the truth won't save your butt. Sneeze or even hold your breath at the wrong spot and you don't have a chance.

  17. #17
    Forum Member FireEeyore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    145

    Default

    I have taken a poly before for a fire department.

    You may have not lied in the poly graph at all.

    What you may have done was contradict something you have answered previously. For instance, your personal history statement that you sent to them. Or, something about job history or background information that they can verify.

    From what I could gather, the polygraph that was administered to me was to determine one thing and one thing only-- Did you lie on your personal history statement?

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    2,466

    Default Fyi

    The Lie Behind the Lie Detector

    The National Academy of Sciences has issued a devastatingly critical report: http://www.nap.edu/books/0309084369/html It is especially critical of the kind of pre-employment screening used by many fire departments.
    AntiPolygraph.org is a website dedicated to the abolishment of the polygraph from the American workplace. These folks were speakers invited by the National Academy of Sciencesí polygraph panel to address its members in Washington, DC. They are always happy to discuss polygraph matters with anyone here who is interested.

    If you are facing a pre-employment polygraph examination, you need to know how these purported ďtestsĒ really work (and donít). It would be worthwhile to take a look at the NAS report referenced above. See also http://www.antipolygraph.org free e-book, http://www.antipolygraph.org/pubs.shtml which may be downloaded as a PDF file or browsed in HTML format.
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    2,466

    Default

    Who's telling the truth?

    Click on the 60 minute segment on this web site page:

    http://www.polygraph.com/testimonials_media.html

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Gippsland Victoria
    Posts
    7

    Default

    My apologies if I over step the mark here both culturally and departmentally.

    But why would someone do all the training to be a firefighter or medic (our amboes are a seperate species to firefighting) just to see later if someone was lying on an application? wouldn't your certificates, or lack of, automatically state this?

    I have taken a poly before for a fire department.

    You may have not lied in the poly graph at all.

    What you may have done was contradict something you have answered previously.
    That's a normal very human thing to do ..........in my experience and studies, it's always shown that psychopaths and sociopaths breeze through polygraph tests.
    who's reading and interpreting these tests?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Poly Body
    By ffmedic1006 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-14-2006, 02:36 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-05-2003, 06:10 PM
  3. Polygraph Test
    By Arkansasfire in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-12-2003, 11:20 PM
  4. Arsonist told FF about fire BEFORE he set it
    By Temptaker in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-20-2002, 03:06 AM
  5. The NEW YORK TIMES
    By E40FDNYL35 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-14-2002, 11:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts