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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber dfd701's Avatar
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    Default Safer Grant Help

    I am going to need a little help from you guys. Our department is going to have a 100% turn over in two more years. That means only two full time FF’s. “LOL” We need to be getting ready for that since bring in someone from the outside the department would be a nightmare. Learning our equipment and area is not going to be as easy as the Mayor and Council thinks. I am looking at the safer grant to help but I do not know anything about how to write it. If anyone could help me out and send me a copy of their app. it would be great and I would be forever grateful. At least when I was hired I had been volunteering for a few years and knew the equipment and people. That was over 27 years ago and I still have most of the same volunteers as I had then. I would love to give them the first chance at making a living at it if you want to call it that. I owe them that much.
    Ed and Jim I see you have a few apps. that people sent you. I started to ask the other day but everyone was asking at the same time and I didn’t want to bother you. Don‘t pass them along without asking them first but If you could will you send me at least one to look at? It may be something that a grant writer could do better for us. I just have to see. Thanks a lot.
    Have a great day.


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    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    DFD

    Ours was for a R&R that we were partially awarded last year after the career departments turned down their hiring grants.

    It would appear that Volunteer R&R has taken a back seat to hiring, at least until the big city depts get a chance at them, & then some end up refusing the funding as they are not in a position to carry the funding forward from tax $$$ after the grant money dries up.

    Temporarily solving financial budget problems is not what the hiring grants are intended for. They want to see a financial solution to how the city/town is going to be able to fund these positions going forward into the future. The primary goal of the program was supposed to be increasing the numbers of FF on duty to make safer response to emergencies.
    I wish I could help you more with a hiring app, but thats not my field of expertise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    DFD

    Ours was for a R&R that we were partially awarded last year after the career departments turned down their hiring grants.

    It would appear that Volunteer R&R has taken a back seat to hiring, at least until the big city depts get a chance at them, & then some end up refusing the funding as they are not in a position to carry the funding forward from tax $$$ after the grant money dries up.

    Temporarily solving financial budget problems is not what the hiring grants are intended for. They want to see a financial solution to how the city/town is going to be able to fund these positions going forward into the future. The primary goal of the program was supposed to be increasing the numbers of FF on duty to make safer response to emergencies.
    I wish I could help you more with a hiring app, but thats not my field of expertise.
    Ed,

    Is the online application similar to the AFG?

    Is their additional information that needs to be collected other than for the project?

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    MembersZone Subscriber dfd701's Avatar
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    Well hello Jim, hope you all are doing fine up there.
    Thanks Ed. I agree with you on that but unlike some other cities our size in the area we are doing fairly well on finances. The lake is a big draw during the summer months. This county will increase 100,000 people on the fourth of July alone and with the mess in the gulf experts say it will be even more coming to the lake this summer. The city has the money for 15 fulltime police officers but only two firefighters. I want express my feelings on that right now. If not for the volunteers we would be hurting. I know the intent of the grant is to have full time personal around the clock but probably hiring two is all the city fathers will go for. That leaves me with the question how will that be accomplished with only two and what bearing on the app. will that make. Another thing is the amount of money they will have to pay the new guys hired on the grant. The last time I read about the safer you had to pay them a lot more money than what they are paying us now. Not much way to get around that ether. A 27 year veteran on the fire department makes less than someone starting off on the police department with no certifications. With all the unfairness showed to our department compared to some other departments I am asking myself why I even want the headache of writing the grant anyway. Not much chance in getting the grant but I guess you could say that with all of them we write.

  5. #5
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    Ed,

    Is the online application similar to the AFG?

    Is their additional information that needs to be collected other than for the project?
    The app is almost the same as AFG, There were a few different fields of information required,but not all that different.
    As far as a hiring app, I'm not sure. The only one I've read through was for two additional hires to bring staffing up to minimum standards. They had a well established plan for future funding of the positions from year 4 on through a new increase in development fees to a couple of big box chains coming into their town. It was part of a 20 year TIF [tax increment financing] package worked out with the developers based on increased needs for service caused by the big box stores presence.
    As of this year all the rules seem to be changed with all the millions being given out to cities that have laid off, or are about to lay off career folks. It's now a shorter period and no real need to show how the funding will be carried forward.
    Take a look at the SAFER awards list and look at the big $$$ amounts being given out.
    Jim just said that Omaha is going to refuse theirs due to a lack of $$$ commitment from local government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    I am going to need a little help from you guys. Our department is going to have a 100% turn over in two more years. That means only two full time FF’s. “LOL” We need to be getting ready for that since bring in someone from the outside the department would be a nightmare. Learning our equipment and area is not going to be as easy as the Mayor and Council thinks.
    Then you would be discriminating right for the git-go.

    "This county will increase 100,000 people on the fourth of July alone and with the mess in the gulf experts say it will be even more coming to the lake this summer. "
    In PG you can't include these 100k people as part of your population or the assumption that the folks coming to help cleanup are part of your population.

    If I recall Ed wasn't there a part of your district that you don't even get taxation from but are expected to service for free ?
    I'd go down that alley first and fix that. The other street I'd go down is if due to the cleanup your pop grew in direct relation to the oil mess would be too bill BP for the extra manpower. Just a thought. it was their !@@## up that is or will be taxing your service to it's limit and would think you would have a leg to stand on since before the mess you could provide the service even if it was by the 'skin of your teeth".
    Last edited by mtndew21; 06-13-2010 at 04:40 AM.

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    MembersZone Subscriber dfd701's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndew21 View Post
    Then you would be discriminating right for the git-go.

    "This county will increase 100,000 people on the fourth of July alone and with the mess in the gulf experts say it will be even more coming to the lake this summer. "
    In PG you can't include these 100k people as part of your population or the assumption that the folks coming to help cleanup are part of your population.

    If I recall Ed wasn't there a part of your district that you don't even get taxation from but are expected to service for free ?
    I'd go down that alley first and fix that. The other street I'd go down is if due to the cleanup your pop grew in direct relation to the oil mess would be too bill BP for the extra manpower. Just a thought. it was their !@@## up that is or will be taxing your service to it's limit and would think you would have a leg to stand on since before the mess you could provide the service even if it was by the 'skin of your teeth".
    mtndew21; I guess I wasn’t clear or you misunderstood. We are 250 miles from the gulf on a large fresh water lake where the oil is not affecting us or should I say not yet. I am afraid that everyone in the US. will be effected one way or the other before the leak is plugged and the oil is cleaned up. The 100,000 population is what is estimated that the county increases on the fourth of July because they are here on vacation enjoying the lake not for clean up. Sorry about the confusion.
    I am looking to the Safer Grant for maybe hiring two to bring up the amount of paid firefighters because of retirement of two. That would make it four at the time of the grant. The city fathers would have to maintain that four even after we are gone. That still want bring it up to standards but it is better than what we have now. The day to day operations is where we are hurting the most.
    I am not sure what you mean by discriminating unless you mean giving the volunteers first shot. Giving the ones that has been here over twenty years, the same ones that get up in the middle of the night to bust the axx and spend their own gas money just to get home in time to go to work a first shot at working here for a living. If you call that discriminating then that is what I will be doing. Let me say that everyone who knows me will tell you that I treat everyone fairly. After every call I go to them one at a time and thank them for coming. They know I have their best interests in mind. That is why I still have most of the volunteers with me after all these years and anyone that has been involved in a VFD can tell you about the turnover rate. If you have that many people stick with you for that long you must be treating them right. I tell them often that they are the department. Without them it is just a building with fire trucks parked in it.
    Sorry dew, I sure you didn’t mean anything by it. I just get carried away sometimes. Hope you have a great day!!

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    Guess I took the "nightmare" part the wrong way as thinking you didn't want someone from the outside.

    No biggy - thought you meant the pop. was going to increase because of cleanup crews. Was I good idea though to bill BP if you were closer .

    I perfectly understood the VFD as I am one myself. I still don't think from the PG the temporary population increase will count. Good for the narrative but not the stat's.

    With all them cop's you must have a starbucks ?
    Have you looked into cross-training some of the police officers ?

    Good luck

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    If I understand correctly, Unions frown on 'dual training'. Think it has something to do with taking jobs away.

    Kinda like Arizona's immigration law deporting illegals.

    Ok that's enough for now.

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    Actually you probably don't want to dip into the vollie ranks for your FTer's because one they are on the payroll they are no longer allowed to be volunteers. Federal law related to workman's comp is what it comes down to, can't be on both sides of the fence for the same organization. Most in the same position end up hiring from neihgboring departments since they're at least familiar with the area on a mutual aid basis first, and then they're around to help with mutual aid from their own vollie department. There's a few areas we work with a handful of departments where each department has 3 or 4 vollies that work as day crews with the other neighbors so it's like a shift of an engine crew from one area to the next every weekday and then back again at night.

    And if you're having 2 retire and they aren't being replaced by the powers that be then it's a rehire situation which would be the 2 years of free dough with no 3rd year obligation required. Of course we don't know what date range of open positions the 2010 SAFER will have like it did with the 2009 until we see the PG, but I would imagine that it would come up close to the app period like it did with 2009.

    National frowns on dual-training when it's a PT position taking away from a FT position with another department. If there are no FT positions then it's no biggie and varies by local also. Most locals ignore it anyway because they're concerned with their own paychecks so better to have a PT job with another department than no 2nd job. A lot of HFD's FFs are on a day crew with someone in the area. Almost every VFD in the area has weekday paid staffing, decent rates too. They won't force those into FT positions since the hourly pay in some is higher than what they're getting with HFD. Expanding the union is a good thing that all members like but not when it makes it tougher to pay one's own bills.

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    Still have not seen anyone mentioning the one thing that SAFER (in it's origin and pre- ARRA) is supposed to do; increase compliance with NFPA1710 & 1720. It disheartens me to see that a lot of the talk on SAFER has been " hey you don't have to worry about keeping them employed after the 2-years and no matching requirment so you can just let em go.. again". What the heck is that accomplishing?
    Kurt Bradley
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    Hence my continual soap box position that SAFER is not a job saver or creator for much more than those seeking 1-4 positions in growing communities. Those with downhill economies it's a failure initiative like the COPS program. Throwing good money after bad still has yet to solve anything...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Hence my continual soap box position that SAFER is not a job saver or creator for much more than those seeking 1-4 positions in growing communities. Those with downhill economies it's a failure initiative like the COPS program. Throwing good money after bad still has yet to solve anything...
    Agreed and amen to that brother! Its supposed to make the fireground "SAFER", it's not just about hiring.
    Kurt Bradley
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    So if I wanted to focus on recruitment and retention of SAFER by say, applying for instructors to come as speakers to my department or apply for the expenses to training facilities, that would be within the safety scope of the project for say R & R?

    If I wanted to pay to have Dr. Harry Carter and Bill Webb come to speak to my department, would that qualify?

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    MembersZone Subscriber ktb9780's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    So if I wanted to focus on recruitment and retention of SAFER by say, applying for instructors to come as speakers to my department or apply for the expenses to training facilities, that would be within the safety scope of the project for say R & R?

    If I wanted to pay to have Dr. Harry Carter and Bill Webb come to speak to my department, would that qualify?
    How are having speakers coming to your department going to "help retain or recruit" members so that you stay in complaince with NFPA1720 Jim? And what "expenses for training" are you talking about? You can't use SAFER to send people to training, thats what AFG is for.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    How are having speakers coming to your department going to "help retain or recruit" members so that you stay in complaince with NFPA1720 Jim? And what "expenses for training" are you talking about? You can't use SAFER to send people to training, thats what AFG is for.
    Just wondering, My first SAFER. Would be great if leaders in the fire service could speak to a lowly rural fire department. Never can tell what one sentence can do to one recruit who in turn will build and lead.

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