1. #51
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Most of the time(almost always) that type of toolbox is BOLTED to the bed. No good way to clamp them. Still a good idea to check it before working UNDER it. T.C.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #52
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    284

    Default

    I did post a couple of replies (go back and check), but then got busy going around in circles on a hay cutter and haven't had time to check back in till today. Thank God we're getting some rain here in southeast Texas.

    If you look at the pics, they're also on a slope, so I'm going to reiterate what I said originally, that I'd prefer to have some sort of stabilization first before I (or one of my guys) crawled underneath that truck.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:16 PM.

  3. #53
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    284

    Default

    Advanced Extrication Technician certified, 20+ years experience, coordinator for training schools hosting both Billy Leach and Lee Junkins.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:17 PM.

  4. #54
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    284

    Default

    Vehicle stability does not end with YOUR experience or vehicle design. It depends heavily on the way that vehicle is resting and the ground the vehicle is resting up. Did you notice the upward slope away from the camera?

    I KNOW that the roof won't collapse (DUH!!!), what concerns me is the vehicle shifting with that many people under and around it.

    It could be a small rural department and this is their normal response. You're the one making the assumption that everyone showed up POV.

    Someone mentioned the one guy in the baseball cap wearing his coat for warmth. Not the case at all. This pic was taken a couple of weeks ago and in southeast Texas.

    The purpose of my post was not to bash on these guys, but rather to use it as a learning opportunity to keep someone else from getting hurt in the future.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:18 PM.

  5. #55
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    That's why I asked if you had more pics as it is hard to really see whats happening from the two shots.

    Look CAREFULLY at the side shot and you will see where I'm basing my initial observations: Drivers door is partially opened and I DO NOT believe that is crash related. Rear structure of cab appears to be intact,gap to rear body is skewed by bend in rear P/u body. Cab appears to have SOME front crush,consistant with what I've experienced in recovering quite a few of these. They appear to be on pasture land which tends to "wad" up under the cab. This adds a degree of stability to the cab area.

    Now it would be NICE if there were a few more pics so you could get perspective on slope,access,and ACTUAL ground conditions. I'm still VERY comfortable that this PARTICULAR scenerio presents NO life threating condition to anybody there,BASED ON THE PICTURE. I'd still prefer to use a couple struts on the rear,just 'cause but unless that grass is WET,it will take quite a lot of energy to get it to move. It really won't rock much either unless you get under the rear of the bed(long lever).

    If you get the chance,try reproducing this on the training ground,let me know what you find out. If you have access to someone with a load cell,set it up and see how energy it takes to move it. I think you would be surprised. T.C.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:19 PM.

  6. #56
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    284

    Default

    Sorry TC, these are the only pics I have.

    From my point of view, it looks like it's on the opposite slope of the road ditch.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:19 PM.

  7. #57
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    306

    Default Always Stabilize

    On the majority of roof resting vehicles the front end is inverted due to the weight of the motor. Quick stabilization can be accomplished on these in less than 2 minutes. Wedges placed at the front of the vehicle, larger wedges or inverted step chocks inserted perpendicular to the vehicle at the A-Pillars and larger wedges or inverted step chocks inserted at 45 degree angles at the C-Pillars. This fills the voids at the structural points and limits movement in all planes. Buttress stabilization can also be added if necessary. Inverting the step chocks makes them into large wedges which work quite well for this. We have also found the large wedge bases from the ResQTec rapid stairs to work well in these situations.

  8. #58
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    ......................t.c.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:20 PM.

  9. #59
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    More pix would just lend itself to better more informed decisions. And further our look at this incident.

    In the RESCUE world you look at things a little different than we do in the RECOVERY world. Keep in mind I've been in the RECOVERY world Waaay before there were three Safety Nazi's for every worker present. DO NOT misrepresent this to say I'm opposed to safety,FAR from it. But when these pictures become DAILY occurances under varying conditions you get pretty experienced at knowing WHAT is going to happen and WHEN. And I LOVE to go playing in the training ground,It's paid back dividends MANY here could only dream of.

    I've had the pleasure of working with Billy for a number of years now,we have a GREAT time and present the students with a number of challenges they are apt to see on the street. As I mentioned earlier,I have Wreckmaster certs and one thing Donnie ALWAYS told us: NEVER perform in Public what you HAVEN'T PRACTICED in Private.

    If this vehicle was in WET grass or Snow/Ice, I would do things much differently that I would as presented. But I'm QUITE serious when I say TRY this at home. Get a backhoe and cave the front a little(like this one)Roll it over,then push it ahead with the hoe about 6-10'.See if what I told you isn't pretty accurate.Love the trick/difficult rescues.With my Fire side COMBINED with the TOWING side,makes the job faster,easier and SAFER. T.C.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:21 PM.

  10. #60
    Moderator
    ProgressiveRescue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    228

    Default Cribbing....Really?

    Lets start with cribbing of the vehicle. It would be nice to see some crib stacks in the rear and if the trucks on a in-or decline struts would be nice.
    Thats the basics....right? You would hope
    Mike Donahue
    Progressive Rescue

  11. #61
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Let's DEFINE cribbing. I don't(and won't)carry enough lumber on my rescue pumper to CRIB THIS truck. Struts.....YES. When I talk cribbing,I'm talking LUMBER. And this is NOT a practical application for cribbing. In MANY ways. A limited amount can be used but a rear crib would NOT be my way of choice. Easiest way to stabilize this one is with struts. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 06-28-2010 at 08:33 AM.

  12. #62
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    You WON'T be inserting Step chocks on the C's on THIS one UNLESS you wanna do some digging. You MIGHT be able to get a couple wedges in the back.This rig is in dirt about 3 or so inches,cabwide. Two struts to the rear and a few blocks on the front will do the job nicely. Too bad there weren't a few closeups and a couple reference shots. T.C.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:21 PM.

  13. #63
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    130

    Default

    Well when the Skill saw falls out of the tool box or the whole box falls and clocks some one then your Insurance company looks at Photos like this you WILL be rewriting your sogs or be looking for a new Carrier.
    Was the Truck Stabile? Probably but I'm not a structural Engineer
    Was there Spinal Injury? Probably not lets grab our portable X-ray
    Dose the pictures tell the whole story? Of course Not
    Would a Trial lawyer tear the IC apart? Defiantly
    Stay Safe All

  14. #64
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Tear the IC apart for WHAT? DOES this agency have an SOG for stabilization? UNKNOWN. Was anybody hurt? Unknown. Does LE have a PPE for rollovers SOG? UNKNOWN.Who was the IC? UNKNOWN. No SMART lawyer will touch this without those answers. T.C.

  15. #65
    Forum Member
    firemanpat29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    427

    Default

    wow, the tool box is already open judging by the pictures, I am sure that Texas like north Fla & south Ga departments have LOTS of these vehicles and fair experince with them. We do not have near enough cribbing to stack the 4 corners, I would not hesitate to work in that enviroment, been there lots of times. we are a fair ways from the Hospital, The longer you play around building a lego fort the more you cut into the Golden Hour. Now I am not talking smash and grab, but use reasonable caution, treat patient as best and as quickly as possible, put them in the meat wagon and send them on their way. then when its all over see how many fireman would it take pulling on the tailgate to move the truck!

  16. #66
    Forum Member
    firemanpat29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    427

    Default

    on a side note I have been away from this site for several years, its good to see Rescue 101 is still here, giving good advise

  17. #67
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    I already KNOW the answer. A LOT, or a winch wire,whichever you prefer. I'm STILL waiting for the naysayers to try it on the training ground.Oh,and use the sand/grass NOT asphalt when you try it. T.C.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:21 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Looking for fire progression pictures
    By capt4nocfa in forum Fire Investigation
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-09-2007, 09:45 AM
  2. Chevron Pictures
    By ChiefSquirrel in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 03-11-2007, 08:21 PM
  3. What am I doing wrong?
    By KEEPBACK200FEET in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 03-16-2005, 05:17 AM
  4. Ladder 49 Things wrong or incorrect.
    By firepimp in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 03-15-2005, 08:23 PM
  5. parade pictures
    By mkutlass in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-19-2002, 03:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register