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  1. #1
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    Default What's wrong with these pictures?

    Just thought I'd post these to get feedback from everyone here.
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  2. #2
    Forum Member TNFF319's Avatar
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    Someone ruined a perfectly good truck.
    FF/Paramedic

  3. #3
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    Not safe is my vote.

  4. #4
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    Oh, it's all okay. That one cop is stabilizing the whole thing with his one hand. I'm sure that's why the safety officer isn't saying anything.

  5. #5
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    If you think that truck is really going anywhere,even without buttresses,it ISN'T . The roll has partially collapsed the windshield area and the weight of engine/trans will keep the nose down. The REAR of the Cab is INTACT which will keep the back up. A scenerio I've recovered many,many times. That being said,there SHOULD be a pair of buttresses to the rear of the vehicle. My educated guess is they are extracting the occupants thru the rear window area. Smart? Not particularly. But not as bad as some of the things I've seen. Takes quite a lot of energy to get that off the roof and righted. Even though it isn't right(quite wrong actually) there is little chance of anyone getting hurt here unless they start cutting. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 06-13-2010 at 06:01 PM.

  6. #6
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    My thoughts exactly. It even looks like the hill slopes downward, which would further make the rear end coming down highly unlikley.

    I have yet to see or hear of a pickup truck on it's roof falling backwards towards the bed with an intact roof.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 10:54 PM.

  7. #7
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    Whats wrong wit the pic? the truck ison its roof.

  8. #8
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    Well, for one I'd sure like to have some sort of stabilization, be it buttresses or at least having the front end tied off to something. I know the roof isn't going to collapse, but I'd sure like to be d@mn sure it wouldn't rotate down on me.

  9. #9
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    Regardless if you THINK it's not going to go anywhere, the vehicle should still be stabilized. That could of hurt a good number of people if something were to happen and the vehicle shifted.

    And the structual parts of the truck is not the only thing to look at here. What if the ground below the vehicle gave way? Then yeah, you're right, the cab did support the 5000+ pounds, but the ground sure didn't..

    Mickey

  10. #10
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    If the GROUND won't support a X-cab,WHAT do you think is going to support your struts? You better bring some 4x8 sheets of HEAVY grade plywood.I'm basing my observations over working a BUNCH of these on the TOWING side. Ground would have to be quicksand or river mud before the cab area wouldn't give you good support. When these roll,they cave in the front and the middle,making a dish if you will. Add a little soft dirt and they're pretty stable.Oh,not as stable as if you used a strut but they WON'T fall on you.Now as far as tying it off,not a bad idea but to what? I can't see the road,I can see a bush or two but they won't hold 4000 that doesn't wanna stay. You can use ground anchors but that again is soil dependent. So HOW would you like to stabilize this? I've got a few ideas but participation is welcomed. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 06-14-2010 at 11:30 AM.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Simpleguy,you got any more pics of this? Like road proximity,slope,anything like that? Picture queries are always FUN,particularly if you can build the lesson off expanding information,just like fires. This one as represented is easy but you could EASILY add some obstacles. T.C.

  12. #12
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    This is where a BRR class comes in handy. Billy uses scenerios like this one to demonstrate how stable(or NOT)the vehicle is,what the best way to stabilize is and HOW Towing operators CAN assist you.AND you get to see what we do after the patients are removed.AND how much energy(pull) is required to make that happen. Applies to ALL vehicle rescue NOT just Big Rigs. Wonder what we're going to serve up this year? hehe T.C.

  13. #13
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    I agree with R101 completely. There is absolutely no risk of the truck tipping back. To say "well you never know" is totally unrealistic. Unless a fault line opens up a mass cavern under the truck swallowing it whole, nothing is going anywhere. There is clearly a patient (or up to four or five patients) trapped in a perfectly stable truck. If you want to spend your time propping up something that is already propped up rather than getting the trauma patients to a trauma center before they bleed out, knock yourself out. I'll be under there working on them while you build a fort.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for stabilization when neccessary. I teach it. But I'm also all for not wasting time on things that are completely unneccessary just because it looks cool.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 10:55 PM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  14. #14
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Mickey,where/how do YOU THINK that vehicle is going to shift?

    And on WHAT do you base your conclusions?

    What steps would you take with equipment YOU have available to prevent this? T.C.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 10:56 PM.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Well I DO agree with a couple of the other posters. What WAS a perfectly good truck is WRONG side down. So yeah,there IS something WRONG with this picture.But keep the ideas coming. T.C.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 10:56 PM.

  16. #16
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    Only two pics I have. IMHO opinion, what's wrong is that the vehicle hasn't been stabilized. Two minutes to put up some sort of cribbing, max.

  17. #17
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    Hi

    I am very surprised with some of the points being made here. How can you state there is absolutely no risk of vehicle movement??

    Get them to the trauma centre as you say, only 2mm of movement to the casualty can cause paralysis, stabilise and create space.

    Yes we can say you never know, because we don't know.

    Is the vehicle stable, yes we can say the weight of the engine and the slope may hold it firm, but after such a crash how do we know what structural damage has been done.
    Extrication basics, always stabilise the vehicle.

    What if they needed to carry out some space creation, the rescue would be delayed whilst the stability is being done.

    Why is no one wearing correct PPE, we wonder why there are so many rescuer injuries etc.

    I would assume that the occupant would have a c-spine injury, so why no space creation, again extrication basics.


    Lets not get lazy get the basics done, stable or not get it stabilised, be prepared for any eventuality.

    Sorry if my post is to the point.

    cheers

    John
    Last edited by jonnycutter; 06-15-2010 at 04:09 PM.

  18. #18
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Because unless there is an earthquake or a volcano, it is stable. Big truck, resting on roof and hood, on solid ground. What more do you want, helicopters to hold it in place in case of a landslide???

    It is stable. MAYBE, the guys working the scene checked it and decided it was perfectly stable enough.

    Training and experience makes us know things. And based on my training and experience, looking at nothing more than these two pictures, I know that truck is stable and I know the guys working the scene are probably know its safe because they are there.

    Always make sure the vehicle is stable. Often, it is perfectly stable without you messing with it even more. Sometimes it needs more stabilization, sometimes it doesn't. In this case, I beleive it doesn't and apparently the guys working the scene also believe that.

    Even if they put a bunch of cribbing under it, they would have to modify it and rework it for space creation anyway. No difference.

    I see one person not in proper PPE. However I don't know what that one person's role is so I'm not going to assume...

    We don't cut up vehicles for fun. We cut them up as needed to get a job done. I'm sure if they needed to make more room, they would do so.
    Last edited by rmoore; 10-23-2010 at 11:01 PM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  19. #19
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    Nmfire
    I am sorry if I have caused some upset, that was not meant to be the case, I may not have written my post as well as it could have been.

    Forums have a bad habit of the information being missinturpreted at times.

    I was only giving my thoughts on the original post. You are quite right it's easy to comment when you are not there. I was not and if I where I would still do things differently. I aS not meaning to disrepect the rescuers in the picture.
    I was surprised at some of the rude comments aimed at me, I do know the subject. Perhaps we just have different ideas?

    I enjoy this forum but do not expect to receive such a hammering on a reply to a previouse post.

    I am sure the crews did a very good job.
    I hope no hard feelings

    john

  20. #20
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Jonny,methodology varies WIDELY from one area to another all over the world. What is RIGHT for one agency may be totally WRONG for another. I've done probably a dozen or more of these vehicles over the last 5 or so years. I KNOW the vehicle,I KNOW the crush points,I'm playing my gut on ground conditions but I KNOW this truck is going NOWHERE(without help). This is based on physics AND EXPERIENCE. Would I utilize a pair of struts? If it were my job,YES. But NO ONE in the picture is going to get hurt if they DON'T,in THIS scenerio. Still looking for more pics or input. T.C.

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