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  1. #1
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Default Responding units for AFD, Building Fire...

    Going off the units called out for a MVA, what are your normal dispatches for the following. In red, is our normal response units. In blue, are units that are dispatched when a working fire is called.

    AFD... Automatic Fire Detection (Alarm only).
    1 Engine, 1 Truck, Bat Chief(IC).
    2 Engines, 1 Rescue/HazMat, 1 Rescue (with cascade), 1 Med, 2nd Bat Chief (as Safety Officer)

    Building/Structural Fire... (Called in).
    3 Engines, 1 Truck, 1 Rescue/HazMat, 1 Med, 2 Bat Chiefs (1 for fire ground command (IC), and second as safety officer).
    1 Rescue (with cascade), second Rescue/HazMat.

    On 2nd alarms, I am not sure what the protocol is for responding units, or criteria. I can guess, but would rather not.

    NOTE: Most apartment buildings and known multiple story buildings have a second truck dispatched by the IC Bat Chief after being dispatched. As well, the Medical Supervisor may be dispatched, or self dispatched.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."


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    AFA (one source monitored system, (I.E.- alarm company advises smoke alarm on the 2nd floor)

    2 quints, 1 rescue, 1 bat chief

    AFA (multiple sources monitored system ( smoke and water flow alarms, multiple detectors), alarm and 911 call, certain high occupancies)
    box alarm

    Structure fire/ box alarm

    4 quints, 1 rescue, 1 bat chief, Safety officer
    (3ff and 1 officer on each quint, 4 ff and 1 officer on rescue)

    working fire dispatch
    2 quints, 1 bat chief, air light truck, pd and ems notified

    2nd alarm
    2 quints, 1 rescue, 1 bat chief

  3. #3
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    Very similar to your dept:

    Automatic Alarm:
    2 engines (we don't have any straight trucks, but have a couple quints that serve as first due in their district... they'll be one of these two if it's their area) and the battalion chief.
    Confirmed Working (total units, not in addition to above):
    3 engines, 1 ladder (quint), rescue, ambulance, battalion chief, law enforcement, (if needed, mutual aid tanker request), and a page goes out to all admin for FYI and requesting safety & fire investigator. If it's huge or a public interest building (historical, municipal, shopping center, school, etc.) you might get an asst chief or chief.

    If the fire is called in and the caller states they see fire or smoke, we basically treat it as a working incident, minus the admin page & tanker request until someone is on-scene and confirms it as a working, then same as above.

    Second alarms are kind of up to the IC. He'll request whatever he needs and we don't really use a standard box alarm style consistently. We also GPS dispatch on priority 1 or 2, so the closest unit may be from another district getting fuel near the call and get tagged for it.

  4. #4
    Forum Member mtg55's Avatar
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    AFA: 1 engine
    AFA high hazard: 1 engine 1 truck

    Dwelling Fire: 2 engines, 1 truck, Add 1 rescue for RIT and 1 ambulance on confirmed fires

    Building Fire: 4 engines, 2 trucks, 1 rescue, Add 1 rescue for RIT and 1 ambulance on confirmed fires

    2nd Alarm: additional 4 engines, 2 trucks, 1 rescue, 1 MCI/Rehab unit, 1 Air Cascade, 1 Ambulance

    3rd+ Alarm: Additional 4 engines to staging area
    Matt G.
    Battalion Chief
    IACOJ-Member
    FTM-PTB

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    AFA

    Closest engine emergency. Non-hydrant area one more engine and two tankers non-emergency. Hydrant area two more engines non-emergency.

    Structure fire

    Non-hydrant area is two engines, two tankers and a auto aid tanker. Hydrant area is three engines.

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    For Pretty Goofy, I mean Prince George's County

    Box Alarm (Confirmed Working Fire)... 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck for RIT, Battalion Chief

    Reduced Box Alarm (report of smoke, no fire)... 2 Engines, 1 Truck/Tower, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck, Battalion Chief

    Box Alarm (Confirmed Working Fire, Non Hydrant)... 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck for RIT, 3 Tankers, Water Supply Company 25, Battalion Chief

    Reduced Box Alarm (report of smoke, no fire, Non Hydrant)... 2 Engines, 1 Truck/Tower, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck, 3 Tankers, Battalion Chief

    Working Fire Dispatch: 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 ALS Paramedic Unit, 1 EMS Duty Officer, 1 Safety Officer (Stations running a Paramedic Ambulance will run as both BLS/ALS)

    Working Fire Task Force: 2 Engines, 1 Special Service, 1 Air Unit, 1 Battalion Chief

    2nd Alarm: 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck, Canteen Unit, PSC 801 (Command Bus if requested), EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    NOTE: Water Supply 25 will not be dispatched on 2nd Alarms, unless requested by Command

    Rapid Intervention Task Force: 1 Engine, 1 Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 ALS Paramedic Unit, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    3rd Alarm: 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck, Battalion Chief

    Water Supply Task Force: 1 Engine, 3 Tankers, 1 Battalion Chief

    Level Three HazMat Box: 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or closest Truck, HazMat 30, HazMat Support 45, HazMat Support 41, Foam 12, (can request Foam 73 (NDW) or Foam 74 (Andrews AFB), 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 Paramedic Unit, HazMat Team Leader (Car 67), EMS Duty Officer, Safety Officer, 2 Battalion Chiefs

    Ambulance Local: 1 BLS Ambulance (if Station is running a PA, it will be dispatched as a PA)

    Medic Local: 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 Paramedic Unit, (if Station is running a PA, it will be dispatched as a PA, but the next closest Paramedic Unit will be alerted, if the next closest Paramedic Unit is unavailable, PSC will dispatch an Engine or Special Service to respond as a first responder.

    Rescue Local: Non Highway, speeds under 35MPH: Engine or Special Service and 1 BLS Ambulance (if Station is running a PA, it will be dispatched as a PA)

    Rescue Local: Non Highway, speeds under 55MPH: Engine or Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance and 1 Rescue Squad

    Rescue Local: Non Highway with entrapment, ejection, etc.: Engine or Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 Rescue Squad, 1 Paramedic Unit, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    Rescue Local: Highway with entrapment, ejection, etc.: Engine or Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 Rescue Squad, 1 Paramedic Unit, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    Rescue Local: Interstate Highway, no entrapment: 2 Engines and/or Special Services, 2 BLS Ambulances

    Rescue Local: Interstate Highway, with entrapment, ejection, etc..: 2 Engines and/or Special Services, 2 BLS Ambulances, 1 Rescue Squad, 1 ALS Paramedic Unit, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    Water Rescue Box: 1 Engine, 1 Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 ALS Paramedic Unit, Technical Rescue 22, Water Rescue 49, Water Rescue 56, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

  7. #7
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RescueEngine40
    For Pretty Goofy, I mean Prince George's County

    Box Alarm (Confirmed Working Fire)... 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck for RIT, Battalion Chief

    Reduced Box Alarm (report of smoke, no fire)... 2 Engines, 1 Truck/Tower, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck, Battalion Chief

    Box Alarm (Confirmed Working Fire, Non Hydrant)... 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck for RIT, 3 Tankers, Water Supply Company 25, Battalion Chief

    Reduced Box Alarm (report of smoke, no fire, Non Hydrant)... 2 Engines, 1 Truck/Tower, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck, 3 Tankers, Battalion Chief

    Working Fire Dispatch: 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 ALS Paramedic Unit, 1 EMS Duty Officer, 1 Safety Officer (Stations running a Paramedic Ambulance will run as both BLS/ALS)

    Working Fire Task Force: 2 Engines, 1 Special Service, 1 Air Unit, 1 Battalion Chief

    2nd Alarm: 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck, Canteen Unit, PSC 801 (Command Bus if requested), EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    NOTE: Water Supply 25 will not be dispatched on 2nd Alarms, unless requested by Command

    Rapid Intervention Task Force: 1 Engine, 1 Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 ALS Paramedic Unit, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    3rd Alarm: 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or next closest Truck, Battalion Chief

    Water Supply Task Force: 1 Engine, 3 Tankers, 1 Battalion Chief

    Level Three HazMat Box: 4 Engines, 2 Trucks/Towers, 1 Rescue Squad or closest Truck, HazMat 30, HazMat Support 45, HazMat Support 41, Foam 12, (can request Foam 73 (NDW) or Foam 74 (Andrews AFB), 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 Paramedic Unit, HazMat Team Leader (Car 67), EMS Duty Officer, Safety Officer, 2 Battalion Chiefs

    Ambulance Local: 1 BLS Ambulance (if Station is running a PA, it will be dispatched as a PA)

    Medic Local: 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 Paramedic Unit, (if Station is running a PA, it will be dispatched as a PA, but the next closest Paramedic Unit will be alerted, if the next closest Paramedic Unit is unavailable, PSC will dispatch an Engine or Special Service to respond as a first responder.

    Rescue Local: Non Highway, speeds under 35MPH: Engine or Special Service and 1 BLS Ambulance (if Station is running a PA, it will be dispatched as a PA)

    Rescue Local: Non Highway, speeds under 55MPH: Engine or Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance and 1 Rescue Squad

    Rescue Local: Non Highway with entrapment, ejection, etc.: Engine or Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 Rescue Squad, 1 Paramedic Unit, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    Rescue Local: Highway with entrapment, ejection, etc.: Engine or Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 Rescue Squad, 1 Paramedic Unit, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    Rescue Local: Interstate Highway, no entrapment: 2 Engines and/or Special Services, 2 BLS Ambulances

    Rescue Local: Interstate Highway, with entrapment, ejection, etc..: 2 Engines and/or Special Services, 2 BLS Ambulances, 1 Rescue Squad, 1 ALS Paramedic Unit, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief

    Water Rescue Box: 1 Engine, 1 Special Service, 1 BLS Ambulance, 1 ALS Paramedic Unit, Technical Rescue 22, Water Rescue 49, Water Rescue 56, EMS Duty Officer, Battalion Chief
    Looks like someone had some time to kill.

    Thanks for the info guys, but the box alarms are still killing me.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  8. #8
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    Alarm System - 1 E, or 1 E and 1 L if L closer.
    Local (brush, rubbish, auto, wires, appliance, etc.) - 1 E or 1 E and 1 L, depends on exact nature
    Fumes (smells called in or CO alarm) - 1 E, 1 L, 1 BC, 1 M
    Tactical Box (SFD, occ. or vacant) - 2 E, 2 L, 1 BC
    Box (Everything else) - 4 E, 2 L, 2 BC
    Hi-Rise Box - 4 E, 3 L, 2 BC (3rd L is Lobby Control)
    Haz-Mat Box - Box plus 1 Rescue, 1 HM unit, 1 HM BC, 1 Medic, 1 EMCO
    Refinery Box - HazMat Box plus Foam Pumper, 1 E or 1 L assigned to Marine Unit 2



    Upon going 2E/2L in service, add 1 M, 1 L (RIT), 1 SOC
    Upon All Hands (full Box in service), add 1 DC, 1 SOC, 1 M, 1 EMCO
    Upon any sign of smoke/fire in HiRise add MIRA - 1 E, 1 L, 1 BC, 1 DC, 1 SOC, 1 Air Unit with assigned E or L, 2 M, 1 EMCO


    2nd Alarm - 5 E, 1 L, 3 BC, 1 DC, 1 SOC (1st E is logistics, 2 E will be pipelines, 1st BC Logistics, 3rd BC Safety)
    3rd Alarm - 4 E, 1 L, 1 BC (2 E will be pipelines)
    4th Alarm - 4 E, 1 L (1 E will be pipeline)
    5th or greater alarm - 4 E

    2nd alarm of refinery box - 2nd Alarm, PLUS 1 E or L assigned to Marine Unit 1; no additional L on 2nd or greater refinery alarms

    NOTES -
    The info I have might be out of date; for example, I think we send an EMCO also on 2nd alarm, and EMCO BC on 3rd.
    These are supposed minimums, often Rescue goes on initial dispatch for say a Box in Apt. bldg. Our dispatch can adjust assignment as needed based on info given. Also severe weather sometimes all assignments get upgraded from initial dispatch - so a local gets a tactical, tactical gets full box.
    EMCO - EMS Lt./Capt.
    Pipeline - Engine with 1000 ft. 5" line and 1500 GPM pump; almost all ours now have the pump, but most only have 500 ft. of 5"
    DC - Deputy Chief, rank above BC, can also roll on anything he wants in his division.
    SOC - Special Ops Co. - Rescue 1 or one of our Squads; they have their own dispatch formula where the city is divided in sections as to who responds 1st/2nd in for SOC assignments. Squads are engines that have almost everything R1 has, but maybe not as much qty. R1 is all SOC all the time.
    MIRA - Major Incident Response Assignment
    Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Looks like someone had some time to kill.

    Thanks for the info guys, but the box alarms are still killing me.

    FM1
    Not sending enough or sending to much?

  10. #10
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524
    Not sending enough or sending to much?
    Neither, just the term it's self. We don't have or use "Box Alarms".

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Neither, just the term it's self. We don't have or use "Box Alarms".

    FM1
    Gottcha. We don't have them either.

  12. #12
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    @ mrpita, thanks for the info, and the notes. That helped alot.

    This is what I found out on 2nd, and further alarms. It is pretty much standard for our area, with a couple other rigs included as needed or wanted.
    Rigs per alarm: 3 engines, 1 truck. 1 med unit (no additional med units after 2, unless needed.)

    Optional: Mobil Command, Fire Car 2 (Asst. Chief, usually self dispatched). If it's a big deal, then the FD Chief will "show up".

    All truck personnel and rescue personnel are RIT, as needed. So we don't have a dedicated RIT unit. Not sure if that is a bad thing or not, compared to previous posts.

    I also noticed no mentioning of the Salvation Army on multiple alarms. We sometimes have them dispatched on the second or third alarm, depending on weather conditions, and time of day or night, as another means of rehab.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    mrpita, what does an engine have to have to make it a "deluge"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    mrpita, what does an engine have to have to make it a "deluge"?
    Off the top of my head, I think it's a 1500 GPM pump and a larger (4" - ?) pre-piped deck gun. Not sure of the pipe size, but I know the 3 Deluge engines all have a bigger deck gun than most, which I want to say is (3" - ?). Maybe 3.5" vs. 2.5", something like that. Since so many of our pumps are 1500 GPM, the deck gun piping is what sets them apart.

    Our last 4 engines had the deck gun deleted as a "cost saving" measure. We'll have to wait some time to see if that is a trend that continues, as we have no budget for more...
    Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

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    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    @ nameless, you peaked my interest in your "deluge" question. Did mrpita answer your question, or not.

    All of our deck guns are off of 1,500+ gpm pumps, with 3" piping.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    that does sound like it'd be a pretty good sight to see. Thanks for the responses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Looks like someone had some time to kill.

    Thanks for the info guys, but the box alarms are still killing me.

    FM1
    OK, here is my Cliff Clavin (Cheers) impersonation. "Well Normy, A box alarm is a term from the old days before CAD. Each area had a card that listed all the units that would respond to the call. Each alarm assignment was listed in a box, one for 1st alarm, one for 2nd and so on. So a box alarm is all the units in the first box." At which Norm says; "Great, how many beers are in my box? Woodie strike another box."

    For structures we have 3 alarms; Still, Box, and Heavy Box Alarms.

    Still Alarm (used for an AFA or smoke investigation) is one engine day, one engine and one truck at night. Theory is that at day, if there is fire an occupant or passerby will call 911, upgrading to a box alarm.

    Box Alarm is used for our non commercial, less than two family occupancy dwellings. Three engines, one truck, one rescue and a battalion chief are on the first box alarm.

    Heavy Box Alarm is for comercial structures and multi-family dwellings (aparments). Three engines, a truck, a rescue and a batt chief.

    Second alarms on each box doubles the units.
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

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    Being in the middle of nowhere and with a very small hydrant district, our Alarm assignments vary depending on the location of the incident itself. But I'll break it down best I can.

    Still Alarm (AFA) 1 Engine, 1 Tanker and a 2nd Engine or other resources if requested.

    1st Alarm (Either confirmed or suspected fire in a structure) 2 Engines , 1 Tanker, Heavy and Light rescue, 1 Ladder and our Brush truck if required. 2 Mutual aid Engine companies are also dispatched, one to the scene and one to cover. And one ALS Ambulance.


    For each upgrade in alarm, the units shown are additional companies dispatched.

    2nd Alarm: 2 Engines, 3 Tankers, 1 Heavy Rescue (Cascade)

    3rd Alarm: 3 Engines, 3 Tankers, 1 Ladder

    4th Alarm: 3 Engines, 4 Tankers

    5th Alarm: 3 Engines, 2 Tankers

    Additional companies can be requested per the IC without upgrading the Alarm assignment.
    Opinions expressed by myself here are just that, mine. And not that of ANY organization or service I am affiliated with.

  19. #19
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EngineCO38
    Being in the middle of nowhere and with a very small hydrant district, our Alarm assignments vary depending on the location of the incident itself. But I'll break it down best I can.

    Still Alarm (AFA) 1 Engine, 1 Tanker and a 2nd Engine or other resources if requested.

    1st Alarm (Either confirmed or suspected fire in a structure) 2 Engines , 1 Tanker, Heavy and Light rescue, 1 Ladder and our Brush truck if required. 2 Mutual aid Engine companies are also dispatched, one to the scene and one to cover. And one ALS Ambulance.


    For each upgrade in alarm, the units shown are additional companies dispatched.

    2nd Alarm: 2 Engines, 3 Tankers, 1 Heavy Rescue (Cascade)

    3rd Alarm: 3 Engines, 3 Tankers, 1 Ladder

    4th Alarm: 3 Engines, 4 Tankers

    5th Alarm: 3 Engines, 2 Tankers

    Additional companies can be requested per the IC without upgrading the Alarm assignment.
    Interesting to note, that you only provide a ladder on the first call, and a second on the third alarm.

    Is this due to the lack of ladder trucks in the area, or the need not to have them because of the buildings in the area???

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  20. #20
    Forum Member EngineCO38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Interesting to note, that you only provide a ladder on the first call, and a second on the third alarm.

    Is this due to the lack of ladder trucks in the area, or the need not to have them because of the buildings in the area???

    FM1
    Its definitely not due to a lack of ladders, in the area not counting ours we have a 105' Quint, 95' CF Tower, 100' Stick and a 75' Quint within 15 to 20 minutes of us. In our district we don't have a single building over 4 stories, so it comes down to not really needing them.

    The last multi-alarm building fire we had above 2 alarms (4th Alarm multi structure fire) We had 2 Ladders in operation for our defensive ops and a third in staging just in case. And due too our small dirt back roads, it can get hard to get a big tandem axle rig out there. So we bulk up on Engine Companies, and bring lots of ground ladders.
    Opinions expressed by myself here are just that, mine. And not that of ANY organization or service I am affiliated with.

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