1. #26
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    To me, this is a **** poor excuse. If you don't have the time, you shouldn't have signed up.

    I run 400 hours a month at one of my EMS jobs, 100 hours a month at another. I'm going back to school, so I'll be conservative and say that's another 100 hours a month. On top of that, I have a wife, a daughter, and am in the process of prepping/testing for two full time fire departments. So, added all together, which includes being out of town for my daughter, we'll say that's 650 hours. There's 730 hours in a month. So that leaves me 80 hours a month for fire department. Guess what, I STILL meet all of my meeting/training/call/station duty requirements at TWO POC Departments.

    Fyred works 56 hours a week at one job, and depending on the week just as many there, and he STILL has time for two POC FD's.

    I don't have time is not an excuse. I have a lot on my plate is not an excuse. And the reason that statement set me off is because you're not even a flippin' member of the department yet, and all I've heard you do is whine. You ask a question and then tell everyone they're wrong. Whatever, I'm done.
    Good one. Anyway, next time read my posts before responding. As I said, I wouldn't fight my own expulsion if I didn't meet the requirements. That's great you do so much. I would never want to do all of that I would want to spend time with my family and also earn money, as all of LI is volunteer FD anyway, very few private EMS companies that pay.
    Keep my mouth shut and ears open.
    Never forget 9/11/01, RIP Uncle James Ruggiero.

  2. #27
    Forum Member
    scfire86ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnFeinberg View Post
    With volunteer LEO's, I would expect no less. Are LEO's in CA permitted to carry weapons of any kind by the way?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnFeinberg View Post
    Anyway, I would not fight my own removal from the volunteer FD if my requirements were not met. If the requirements weren't there, then it would be a lot harder to organize people when they are not coming in for paychecks, only pride. Of course, like I said, there could be an exception for one member if there was a very good excuse, and showed hard work ethic, and missed the requirement by a small amount of calls due to a valid reason.
    Standards are there for a reason. Once you start making exceptions, there is no point in having them.

  3. #28
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tree68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Jefferson County, NY USA
    Posts
    2,287

    Default

    Most departments usually show some level of understanding for somebody who is a genuine asset but hasn't been able to meet some requirement on a one time basis. Oftimes its a matter of having exceeded other requirements.

    Statuatory requirements are another story.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

  4. #29
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I have said it before, I will say it again....With the exception of certain training mandates,

    When the Volunteer Fire Department starts paying my mortgage, the Volunteer Fire Department may begin telling me what I must attend.

    I would never expected to hear that kind of absolute crapola from you.

    Like any other oganization a volunteer fire department can set any standards for membership that they want. It is up to those who seek to volunteer to decide whether this wish to comply or not. If they choose not to comply my attitude is don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out. I don't have any need for those who don't take it seriously enough to meet the minimum requirements for the fire department but don't have any problem making 3 nights a week for softball, dart league, trap league or whatever. We all make choices and consequences go along with choices.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  5. #30
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,072

    Default

    Standards are there for a reason. Through time and experience the local FD has decided what is the minimum membership requirement to keep firefighters informed, educated, and trained.

    If a member finds life has thrown them knuckleballs and their ability to respond or attend meetings, training or even respond is curtailed, there usually is a process in place for leaves of absence. That is one solution to the problem. You simply cannot allow members to simple slack off, or disappear, only to reappear as if they were never gone.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  6. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    N.W. Iowa
    Posts
    196

    Default

    Sorry I can not help you with any ideas. We are currently also in the process of looking into requirements for active members, what to do if they do not make them and setting up something for honorary members. This is a great discussion. If any of the members of the forum read this and would be willing to help us out we need some examples of by-laws. We are a rural Iowa all volunteer department with some state requirements for training we need to keep in mind when writing new by-laws.

  7. #32
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Standards are there for a reason. Through time and experience the local FD has decided what is the minimum membership requirement to keep firefighters informed, educated, and trained.

    If a member finds life has thrown them knuckleballs and their ability to respond or attend meetings, training or even respond is curtailed, there usually is a process in place for leaves of absence. That is one solution to the problem. You simply cannot allow members to simple slack off, or disappear, only to reappear as if they were never gone.
    What would be an appropriate reason?
    Keep my mouth shut and ears open.
    Never forget 9/11/01, RIP Uncle James Ruggiero.

  8. #33
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    247

    Default

    Oh, stuff like a National Guard deployment or very extended business travel that kept you out of town so much that you couldn't make the required drills. Maybe having a baby and needing to deal with the first few months of that. There can be a whole host of very legit reasons to temporarily give someone a pass on things, however it should be for a fairly defined period of time and once that period is over I'd expect them to have to have a higher than normal participation rate in order to make it up.

    But, all that is probably going to be a judgement call on the part of the chief or other department leaders.

  9. #34
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tree68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Jefferson County, NY USA
    Posts
    2,287

    Default

    We recently gave a member a leave of absence when he left for another part of the country seeking employment. Had he been gone for over a year, we would have asked for a resignation. As it was, he came back a few months later. Since he was out on a LOA, we just accepted him back (with open arms). No re-application, etc.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

  10. #35
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnFeinberg View Post
    What would be an appropriate reason?
    Adding to what auxman and tree68 said...An illness or disease that the member, or a member of their family, has that requires the member to be out of service.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  11. #36
    Forum Member
    Rice09's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    177

    Default

    In my opinion, it depends on your department, bylaws etc. My dept. is a little relaxed, but the only real requirements we have written in stone are physicals and training. I don't think taking gear away or forms of punishment are needed where I'm at. We have a great unit. But maybe other dept.s do.
    For example, we have plenty of help at fund raisers, calls and meetings. We lacked participation in training. So, what I did was change the structure from once a month when I arrived here. I offered a training every week, and one on a weekend so everyone had the opportunity to join in. I took suggestions from everyone and let them help. Making it fun is the key. Making it interesting. On one of the weekly trainings, we critique calls and just hang out and eat snacks. Keep it light. Now we have so many guys it's packed. (Its the food) And it's usually slower during Winter months.
    That all being said, guys have to show up and make an effort. If collectively you decide a person isn't cutting it, I wouldn't start with punishment, I would offer help. There will always be people who just want the blue light, lol.

  12. #37
    Forum Member
    IMFD62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Bucks County, PA
    Posts
    5

    Default

    hey skoj,

    Good Luck on this. I am the head of the by laws committee at my station and I just fought to add requirments for active memberships. I would say since it's a new year and theres lots of time to make the requirments send a letter to the person in question explaining the liability the company faces if they do not meet their requirements. If they don't show up to drill or the OSHA recert the department cannot prove that they are fit for duty and are aware of any changes made to NFPA or OSHA. Give them a timeline in order to meet a lowered requirment to maintain active status and make them sign something that says they understand the bylaws and its requirments and failing to meet them in the future without clearence from the chief would result in change of status and loss of truck priveledges.

    I would not lower your requirments, Ours are higher and we make it work. It all depends on the people in your station and the attitudes. Good luck on this and if I can help please let me know. Im getting really good at handling bylaws issues haha

  13. #38
    Forum Member
    Skojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    rural upstate NY
    Posts
    69

    Default

    Jeez - can't believe this thread is still going on after 20 months...

    Thanks for all the replies though. We still haven't come a conclusion about what to do. We talked about putting those that do not make their annual requirements on a "probation" period, during which they would be required to make a set amount of trainings and meetings. This never got very far though. One reality check for the folks that don't make their annual requirments is that they aren't allowed to vote at our annual elections. This seems to help with our turnout right after elections.

    Long story short, our requirements are staying as is. We've started having drills at different times in the week to help those that can't make our Monday night drills. We're getting better at promoting trainings, both in county and in our neighboring counties. So, the opportunities are there for the membership.

    Over the next couple months, I plan to bring up some type of dept-funded length of service award program (LOSAP) or small training stipend. Just wondering if anyone has something similar and what your amounts are? (For example, earn $100 when you reach 5-years active service, another $100 when you reach 10-years, etc. Or complete Firefighter I and receive $100, complete FFII and received another $100. I don't know if our small dept can sustain this, but then again, we don't have a huge number of members. Thoughts?

    Skojo
    (upstate NY)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Officer Positions and New Members
    By LandsEnd05 in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-04-2002, 06:18 PM
  2. How ACTIVE are You?
    By 2young4duty in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-09-2002, 08:29 PM
  3. Union vs "Right to Work"
    By rrilling in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 01-23-2002, 02:15 PM
  4. LODD PROTOCOLS
    By shoney6308 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-15-2002, 08:20 AM
  5. WHO IS A ACTIVE MEMBER?????
    By Fire827 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-08-2001, 02:32 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register