Closed Thread
Page 2 of 14 First 1234512 ... Last
  1. #26
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,439

    Default

    When the Federal Government takes over our local firehouse, then I will bother to read the rules regarding Federal Government property.

    Of course I am not a government-employee-hating-government-employee
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  2. #27
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post

    Where are you getting all this Authority Information about the Federal Laws? They in essence have nothing to do with City Fire Houses. buckwheat! Maybe in your little bean counter world of foolish dribble, the Feds rule.



    I get it from working if Federal facilities as well as State facilities. In fact, NY State ethics laws and regulations apply to all NYS Governmental entities.

  3. #28
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    441

    Default

    I'll offer a comparison for the sake of discussion.

    Infantry BN in garrison. Company CQ NCO & runner on duty all night, BN Staff Duty NCO & runner on duty all night. None are allowed to sleep (AT ALL), they are ON DUTY. Reading and "recreation" is restricted to training related materials. They get off duty at 0800 and have the next day off. And the pay isn't all that great.

    BN Staff Duty Officer, when inspections/other duties as assigned are complete, can get a few hours sleep on the conference table. Then works the next day.

    Who has it rough and has something to whine about?

  4. #29
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    When the Federal Government takes over our local firehouse, then I will bother to read the rules regarding Federal Government property.

    Of course I am not a government-employee-hating-government-employee
    It isn't just the federal government. NYS at least has laws that tell the localities how to operate when it comes to ethics and procurements as well as other matters. As a tax payer it is my opinion that government owned equipment should only be used for government business purposes.

    As I have sat through many an ethics class for the federal government I can tell you that the phones are not even supposed to be used for personal calls. The tax payer pays for this stuff so the government can function, not to give some benefit to the employees.

  5. #30
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    I'll offer a comparison for the sake of discussion.

    Infantry BN in garrison. Company CQ NCO & runner on duty all night, BN Staff Duty NCO & runner on duty all night. None are allowed to sleep (AT ALL), they are ON DUTY. Reading and "recreation" is restricted to training related materials. They get off duty at 0800 and have the next day off. And the pay isn't all that great.

    BN Staff Duty Officer, when inspections/other duties as assigned are complete, can get a few hours sleep on the conference table. Then works the next day.

    Who has it rough and has something to whine about?
    I have brought that up in the past. Sit back and prepare for a bunch of insults.

  6. #31
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,618

    Default

    SC ...

    If these guys just want to keep shooting themselves in the foot in regards to public perception, just let 'em go for it.

    Myself, I would be doing what I can to improve my image with the public, but maybe that's just me.

  7. #32
    MembersZone Subscriber
    voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    RULE: Government property may be used only for official and authorized purposes.

    WHAT USES ARE PERMITTED?

    * OFFICIAL USE: Directly related to and necessary for accomplishing your duties.
    * AUTHORIZED USE: Supportive of your duties or organizational mission (and limited incidental personal use on your own time and at no or minimal cost to the Government) and must be approved by your supervisor.
    * PROHIBITED USE: Unrelated to your duties, incurs significant cost to the Government, and/or has the potential for abuse or damage to DoD.
    From your own link.. even at the Federal/State level the facilities are allowed to be used for limited personal use. Washing your POV/POB during downtime falls under this category. This is a non-issue.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  8. #33
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    I gotta tell this story........ In the early 60's our County was going thru the painful process of converting from an area of totally independent, totally Volunteer, organizations to a unified Combination Department. (We're not there yet, but we're working on it....) The County Commissioners hired a just retired "Big City" Battalion Chief to be the first "Director of Fire/Rescue Services" ("Fire Chief" was way off in the future) This "New Guy" was on the job a short time when he passed a Station and saw a person sitting on a bench in front, obviously asleep. Back at his Office, the Director had his "Office Person" call that Station to summon the Sleeping Person to the Office for a Butt Chewing session. Instead, the Director got a call from the County Commissioner that had hired him, telling him that the "Sleeper" was a Volunteer, not a Career Firefighter, and that he should forget it................. The "New Guy" didn't understand that in our area, it was common for folks at the Stations to "Lounge" outside when the Weather was good, and that the Community didn't complain, and they were happy that people were at the stations, ready to respond instead of waiting for home response crews. My Point??..... What might be a Big Problem at Department "A" might be perfectly OK at Department "B"........ One Size does NOT fit all..........


    Why were you napping on the bench?? Did the sun lure you asleep?
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  9. #34
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,243

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I get it from working if Federal facilities as well as State facilities. In fact, NY State ethics laws and regulations apply to all NYS Governmental entities.
    [/B]




    BS!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  10. #35
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    From your own link.. even at the Federal/State level the facilities are allowed to be used for limited personal use. Washing your POV/POB during downtime falls under this category. This is a non-issue.
    Yes, some places allow incidental use if there is no or minimal cost and on your own time. This means when you are off duty and not during your shift. Since you are off duty, why not wash your car or boat in your own yard using your own water?

    And to clarify, downtime to me means you are on duty with nothing to do.

  11. #36
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canuck Expat May be anywhere
    Posts
    2,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Cheffie... it's a non issue with the BFD, too.

    According to Steve McDonald, the BFD's PIO...


    The boat washing pic was taken at Engine 41/Ladder 14 at 2300 hours (11:00 PM) by a "concerned citizen" on a cell phone as he drove by...

    He felt it wasn't right as "they just got a "big raise"....

    A raise that was the result of 4+ years without a contract....

    It may be a non issue for the BFD but probably not for the Boston taxpayers. BFD needs some training on public relations. They're not doing themselves any favors considering some past issues and crap like this will certainly not help them. Joe and Jayne Q Public are taxpayers and yes, as taxpayers, they can start making rules. BFD is a govt run agency and needs to be aware that they answer to the public.

  12. #37
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    If these guys just want to keep shooting themselves in the foot in regards to public perception, just let 'em go for it.

    Myself, I would be doing what I can to improve my image with the public, but maybe that's just me.

    I'm not going to talk about the situation at hand, but there can always be extenuating circumstances.

    We have a serious crime and vandalism problem around several of our engine houses, so we park our cars inside the firehouse. There is plenty of room, no department equipment/vehicles are left outside, and our vehicles don't get vandalized.
    It sucks when coming to work can cost seven or eight hundred dollars in tires or paint. And guess what, when my tires were punctured with an ice pick, and I had four flat tires, I used department air and a department regulator to refill them I did that so I could get to a tire shop and replace them, without even thinking of going to the city for any money. I make no apologies for using city equipment and air while on duty.

    The guy that shot this video is probably the typical anti-city employee blowhard, with nothing else to do. There are plenty of them out there. He walks by an engine house at 2300 hrs and takes some video, and then provides it to a tv station with an obvious agenda. I've read plenty of opinion pieces on several of the stories and sure, there are a few who are anti-fire, anti-city or whatever you want to call it, but there are far more who don't care.
    What the majority seem to care about is that the rig in that firehouse gets onscene within a couple of minutes of their calling for help. This is as much of a non-issue as the story a few months back about the engine company shopping outside of the city.

    Believe me, we are very PR oriented here and very sympathetic to the tax payers. There is always a small number who are always going to bitch and moan no matter what happens; it's just hard to believe when it comes from within our own "ranks". (and I say that very, very loosely)
    Last edited by jasper45; 06-18-2010 at 12:15 PM.

  13. #38
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,618

    Default

    Jasper ..

    I understand your tire situation. That is a situation where a repair was required and perfectly understandable.

    My point is we continue to do things, often in the public view, in communtities where we know the reaction may be hostile. For example, we know that there is an anti-FD sediment in some parts of the community, and yet, the FFs continue to take care of personal business, such as this example of washing a boat in the bay. There comes a point where we have to stop doing these things, irregardless if we consider them right, to avoid the obvious public perception.

    The fact is we are compared to the cops, and how often do you see a cop washing or fixing his personal vehicle behind the station while on duty. Like it or not, the community will compare us to law enforcement, and will often see is a negative light becuase of those activities.

    We have never had a problem with public perception, however, our Chief has several rules that we must follow. We, and this includes the volunteers, cannot sit on the truck bumpers in the bay in public view. If the volunteers want to wash thier POVs, it must occur at the training building, which is beyond the view of the highway. Apparatus cannot be pulled out so that the bays can be used for POV repair - volunteer or career. He understands that it is all about perception.

    The fact is most people do not enjoy the same freedom to do what we do in our downtime, and some of them will react to that. Dispite what we feel, they can influence the politicains the next time we want to save staff or buy apparatus or renovate or rebuild stations. To not modify our behavior, or at the least take steps to make it less visable, to conform to what the public expects is doing nothing but shooting ourselves in the foot.

  14. #39
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Chief_Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Jasper ..

    I understand your tire situation. That is a situation where a repair was required and perfectly understandable.

    My point is we continue to do things, often in the public view, in communtities where we know the reaction may be hostile. For example, we know that there is an anti-FD sediment in some parts of the community, and yet, the FFs continue to take care of personal business, such as this example of washing a boat in the bay. There comes a point where we have to stop doing these things, irregardless if we consider them right, to avoid the obvious public perception.

    The fact is we are compared to the cops, and how often do you see a cop washing or fixing his personal vehicle behind the station while on duty. Like it or not, the community will compare us to law enforcement, and will often see is a negative light becuase of those activities.

    We have never had a problem with public perception, however, our Chief has several rules that we must follow. We, and this includes the volunteers, cannot sit on the truck bumpers in the bay in public view. If the volunteers want to wash thier POVs, it must occur at the training building, which is beyond the view of the highway. Apparatus cannot be pulled out so that the bays can be used for POV repair - volunteer or career. He understands that it is all about perception.

    The fact is most people do not enjoy the same freedom to do what we do in our downtime, and some of them will react to that. Dispite what we feel, they can influence the politicains the next time we want to save staff or buy apparatus or renovate or rebuild stations. To not modify our behavior, or at the least take steps to make it less visable, to conform to what the public expects is doing nothing but shooting ourselves in the foot.
    It seems a lot of the heat from the public is related to the current economic situation as well. I don't recall a time in my 20 year career where I've ever seen some of the hostility I've seen recently directed at firefighters from the public. Fire trucks and firefighters have been SPIT on by members of the public (Nevada), as reported in a recent Fire Chief Magazine article. That just boggles my mind and puts me in a funk. There are clearly people out there who hate us and we either choose to avoid antagonizing them or we spit back. I for one don't find much usefulness in trying to elevate things because you're never going to convince people with so much internal hate for government that they're wrong. Ever. I prefer to keep out of their sights as much as possible. Let them pick on cops, they're a much easier target.
    Last edited by roykirk1989; 06-18-2010 at 02:44 PM.

  15. #40
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    The guy that shot this video is probably the typical anti-city employee blowhard, with nothing else to do.
    Or perhaps someone in danger of losing their home to taxes
    Or perhaps someone unemployed because the business couldn't afford the taxes
    Or perhaps it was a citizen who was told he can't use this same equipment for his own use.

    As for your parking situation I fully understand that. I work in an area of Albany where we are on the edge of a not so nice neighborhood. When we work 3-11 we have to park about 1/2 mile away where we have to go under an overpass to get tot the lot. Two guys have been robbed going there during the day. Others have had confrontations at night. It is no fun walking out there alone at night. After 6 PM and on weekends we are allowed to park in the parking garage under the building.

  16. #41
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    477

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Cheffie... it's a non issue with the BFD, too.

    According to Steve McDonald, the BFD's PIO...


    The boat washing pic was taken at Engine 41/Ladder 14 at 2300 hours (11:00 PM) by a "concerned citizen" on a cell phone as he drove by...

    He felt it wasn't right as "they just got a "big raise"....

    A raise that was the result of 4+ years without a contract....

    So you consider it unreasonable for a taxpayer to get upset? You don't think that after getting, what, 17%, if you have a boat- which most taxpayers can't afford- it's unreasonable to ask the guys to keep them at home and wash them there? You don't see a public relations problem? A little lack of common sense and sensitivity to the community perhaps?

    You're a PIO, Chief. I know you can see the other side of it. Try to take off the union glasses for 30 seconds or so, and just admit it.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't have gotten a contract, or even a raise. I'm just saying that there's no such thing as "out of the public eye" anymore. Technology has come too far, and the public is under too much economic strain to not notice and not get upset by these things.
    Last edited by emt161; 06-19-2010 at 12:00 PM.

  17. #42
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Or perhaps someone in danger of losing their home to taxes
    Or perhaps someone unemployed because the business couldn't afford the taxes
    Or perhaps it was a citizen who was told he can't use this same equipment for his own use.

    Maybe, but probably not. The loud mouths who usually squawk about issues such as this one, are bitter, jealous and woefully misinformed about the compensation and benefits packages most city employees have. In fact, many sound just like you, which is to say they are grossly misinformed.

    They love to spout off about our "Cadillac" pensions that allow us to retire in our early forties at 100% of our salary. They love to slam us about our lucrative health care for life, free of charge, etc... none of which are true.

    Most reasonable people don't care about an issue such as this, unless washing the boat somehow hindered their response time, which I would bet a paycheck it did nothing of the sort. Most reasonable people realize that there are some perks associated with every job. When I worked for a Miller beer distributor, we were able to to buy beer at about a dollar per case. And don't give me the garbage line about tax dollars blah, blah blah. Just because we draw our salary from tax dollars, that does not mean we have to wipe your *** anytime you want us to. We are employees tasked with performing a job, no different than any other line of work, except for what we are expected to do.

    There is a segment of society that is going to bitch and moan no matter what we do.
    All I know is that there are a lot of people who are damn glad to see us show up and do our thing, irrespective of the weather, time of day, or the neighborhood they live in.
    Last edited by jasper45; 06-19-2010 at 04:49 PM.

  18. #43
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    So you consider it unreasonable for a taxpayer to get upset? You don't think that after getting, what, 17%, if you have a boat- which most taxpayers can't afford-
    In my neighborhood, I am probably the only one who doesn't own a boat. None of my other neighbors are public sector employees, either. I'm willing to bet that a good chunk of the general public owns a boat if that is important to them.

    And yes, public relations is a huge issue that needs to be thought of. But there is a segment of society that is going to find something to be ****ed off about, and create a stink. Last month it was where an engine company was shopping for food, today it was washing a personal boat. Who knows, maybe next month they'll complain about having to provide a parking lot at the house, or complain about us showering at work.

    There is a segment of society that thinks because a budget comes from tax money, that they are owed whatever they want on demand. Those people will never be satisfied, no matter what.

  19. #44
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    So you consider it unreasonable for a taxpayer to get upset? You don't think that after getting, what, 17%, if you have a boat- which most taxpayers can't afford- it's unreasonable to ask the guys to keep them at home and wash them there? You don't see a public relations problem? A little lack of common sense and sensitivity to the community perhaps?

    You're a PIO, Chief. I know you can see the other side of it. Try to take off the union glasses for 30 seconds or so, and just admit it.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't have gotten a contract, or even a raise. I'm just saying that there's no such thing as "out of the public eye" anymore. Technology has come too far, and the public is under too much economic strain to not notice and not get upset by these things.
    Was this guy who "complained" even a taxpayer in the City of Boston, or just another crapstirrer?
    Please do tell... inquiring minds want to know.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  20. #45
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Maybe, but probably not. The loud mouths who usually squawk about issues such as this one, are bitter, jealous and woefully misinformed about the compensation and benefits packages most city employees have. In fact, many sound just like you, which is to say they are grossly misinformed.

    They love to spout off about our "Cadillac" pensions that allow us to retire in our early forties at 100% of our salary. They love to slam us about our lucrative health care for life, free of charge, etc... none of which are true.

    Most reasonable people don't care about an issue such as this, unless washing the boat somehow hindered their response time, which I would bet a paycheck it did nothing of the sort. Most reasonable people realize that there are some perks associated with every job. When I worked for a Miller beer distributor, we were able to to buy beer at about a dollar per case. And don't give me the garbage line about tax dollars blah, blah blah. Just because we draw our salary from tax dollars, that does not mean we have to wipe your *** anytime you want us to. We are employees tasked with performing a job, no different than any other line of work, except for what we are expected to do.

    There is a segment of society that is going to bitch and moan no matter what we do.
    All I know is that there are a lot of people who are damn glad to see us show up and do our thing, irrespective of the weather, time of day, or the neighborhood they live in.
    Amen, Jasper.

    One day I had a call from Fire Alarm telling me they were transferring a call from an irate woman who demanded to speak to the "person in charge"....
    who happened to be yours truly.

    The woman was screaming into her phone and said wanted to file a formal complaint about the Rescue truck speeding through her neighborhood. I thought this was odd... since we were well over an hour into the tour of duty and nobody in any of our three stations had turned a wheel. I asked her when this alleged "incident" happened.. she said "just now, you idiot...

    Well, I don't take well to people insulting me over the phone, so I told her that her comment about me was uncalled for. She then went into a tirade about "I can talk to you any way I want... I pay your salary... blah blah blah... I hung up the phone....

    Where do people get off thinking that they can treat us like crap?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  21. #46
    Forum Member
    JayDudley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,272

    Default Image

    This is without a doubt a PR thing. We even used this situation on our oral board. You should have heard the answers we received.
    Those of us who are firefighters understand the situation it puts us into. Those who are "Bean Counters" do not comprehend this situation.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
    Background Investigator
    IACOJ-Member
    Lifetime Member CSFA
    IAFF Alumni Member

  22. #47
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Wow... scarecrow making more inane and stupid comparisons... what a shock.

    I think that the department needs a policy and then it needs to be followed. Period.

    Right or wrong is not so easy to peg on this one.

    However, I think that using the bay in a career house to take care of personal business might be pushing things a bit, especially a boat. At some point, there is a limit, no?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  23. #48
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Wow... scarecrow making more inane and stupid comparisons... what a shock.

    I think that the department needs a policy and then it needs to be followed. Period.

    Right or wrong is not so easy to peg on this one.

    However, I think that using the bay in a career house to take care of personal business might be pushing things a bit, especially a boat. At some point, there is a limit, no?
    Ken... the practice is allowed with the permission of the company officer.

    Are we going to allow John and Jane Q Public to dictate Department policy to us, whether it be using an empty bay or using lights and sirens on calls?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  24. #49
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Ken... the practice is allowed with the permission of the company officer.

    Are we going to allow John and Jane Q Public to dictate Department policy to us, whether it be using an empty bay or using lights and sirens on calls?
    I think there is a difference between the two examples you give.

    However, let's be real here, the public already have influenced or dictated certain policies. This practice seems like a minor issue not worth fighting for.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  25. #50
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I think there is a difference between the two examples you give.

    However, let's be real here, the public already have influenced or dictated certain policies. This practice seems like a minor issue not worth fighting for.

    If the news story in question revolved around a volunteer firefighter who was using the bay in the VFD firehouse to wash a boat, would there be as much controversy?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

Closed Thread
Page 2 of 14 First 1234512 ... Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Did you respond to WTC???
    By E40FDNYL35 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 197
    Last Post: 04-21-2011, 07:28 PM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 04-17-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-21-2005, 07:05 PM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 01-22-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2005, 02:46 PM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 02-27-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-29-2004, 04:53 PM
  5. Need quotation for fallen brother!
    By Doo600 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-08-2004, 08:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register