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  1. #1
    Forum Member Blulakr's Avatar
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    Default Securing a hydrant

    Our department has had some discussions regarding if the first-in engine should secure a nearby hydrant or proceed directly to the incident and rely on a second engine to secure water supply.

    What are your thoughts?


  2. #2
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Time of day???? Incoming resources????? Does the truck company need to get in before the road closes??? Many factors to consider, but in any case if there is any kind of indication that it could be work, first in Engine Co. should always drop a line.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    MembersZone Subscriber CKirk922's Avatar
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    Our department is in the midst of training on this very subject. Add in the factor of drop pond ops and you see our dilema. We are about 35% hydranted and the rest off portable or static sources. Should the attack engine drop supply on the way in when a pond will have to be dropped?

    Personally, I think it depends like FWD stated...Incoming truck, second due time frame, distance from supply point...
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

  4. #4
    Forum Member Blulakr's Avatar
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    That's pretty much the policy we came up with. It's a judgement call by the IC during initial size-up..

    If it's a small structure only partially involved and can be knocked down with tank water then do that. Larger structures or in cases where exposures are threatened then grab a hydrant or secure a water source.

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    There is a thing on here called 'search' try it out you might like it.

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    Only part of our first due has hydrants. First engine either drops a line at a hydrant or convenient location. Many of our roads are narrow, so having the 2nd engine stretch a supply line will clog up the area and most likely block out the truck or special service.

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    In my dept it is the 2nd due engine because our ladder is a quint and if we need to we could drop a line and start out attack while the other compnay arrives...our ladder always rolls first and 1 of the 3 engines is always following it

  8. #8
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harris543 View Post
    In my dept it is the 2nd due engine because our ladder is a quint and if we need to we could drop a line and start out attack while the other compnay arrives...our ladder always rolls first and 1 of the 3 engines is always following it
    Pretty retarded.

    If we need to we could drop a line? How would you not need to? You gonna beat it into submission with the ladder?

    And, you first out piece that you are going to commit with on tank water most likely has the smallest tank in your department.

    Like I said, retarded.
    RK
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    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Pretty retarded.

    If we need to we could drop a line? How would you not need to? You gonna beat it into submission with the ladder?

    And, you first out piece that you are going to commit with on tank water most likely has the smallest tank in your department.

    Like I said, retarded.
    The ladder rolls first because its a quint, which means if it needs to (super low man power day) it can turn into an engine after we hook up to the hydrant Now 1 of the 2 engines from station 1 and the engine at station 2 roll right behind the ladder no more than 30 second after the ladder leaves you have 2 engines following right behind it and most of the time you have the engine at station 2 crew up faster and get out the door faster than the the ladder does at station 1.....Now the chiefs are the first on scene so if its a working fire they call a first alarm assignment way before the ladder arrives which then gets you 3 more engines 1 more truck and 1 fast team who are 3 mintues out at max ITS CONFUSING AND GET WAY MORE COMPLICATED ONCE YOU FACTOR IN THE NON HYDRANT AREAS

  10. #10
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harris543 View Post
    The ladder rolls first because its a quint, which means if it needs to (super low man power day) it can turn into an engine after we hook up to the hydrant Now 1 of the 2 engines from station 1 and the engine at station 2 roll right behind the ladder no more than 30 second after the ladder leaves you have 2 engines following right behind it and most of the time you have the engine at station 2 crew up faster and get out the door faster than the the ladder does at station 1.....Now the chiefs are the first on scene so if its a working fire they call a first alarm assignment way before the ladder arrives which then gets you 3 more engines 1 more truck and 1 fast team who are 3 mintues out at max ITS CONFUSING AND GET WAY MORE COMPLICATED ONCE YOU FACTOR IN THE NON HYDRANT AREAS
    I guess if they are all rolling out from the same house it makes a little more sense. If it works for you, so be it. Just seems alot of people use quints inappropriately. They are not all they are cracked up to be, even with extra manpower which you say you don't have.

    Most manufacturers and fire chiefs try to sell the concept on the fact that you are getting 2 for 1, when you do not. A quint almost always can be used only as a truck or an engine....rarely both.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  11. #11
    Forum Member JayDudley's Avatar
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    Default Laying in

    When I worked for Long Beach Fire it was policy to grab a hydrant when you see smoke and lay a line in. The problem you have with that is you are not first to put water on the fire. It all had to do with pride and that is where the problems lie.
    Now I work for a Paid and Volunteer Department and we go to the fire and have the Tanker lay to us.
    Respectfully,
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    If you have a strong indication of it being a fire, such as dispatch telling you there are multiple calls or you see smoke/fire from down the street we'll lay a line. A lot of time because the hydrants are right on top of each other, the hydrant man drags back to the hydrant.

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    Cool My Thoughts.....

    When I was a Captain on the Engine my policy was visible smoke from the front of the occupancy, smoke visible from down the street or while on the road, visible fire or multiple reports while responding I dropped a line. Depending on what conditions I found, determined if we "caught the hydrant" or just "wrapped the hydrant." I liked this because it kept it simple and consistent for my Guys.

    This is just how I did it.....
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

  14. #14
    Forum Member Blulakr's Avatar
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    We generally have an officer on call in the district 24\7. They are on scene before the first engine therefore it's their call. Part of their initial size-up is fire conditions and proximity of water supply.

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    Suburban volunteer dept here. First due engine goes to the scene, second hits the plug. We send one engine from each house and they are typically on the road within seconds of each other. So, it doesn't matter too much that the second dues hits the hydrant, they are on scene at pretty much the same time anyway.

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    our sop is first engine sets up for fire attack while second pumper deploys a duel forward lay to the first engine. However if the plug is close enough to the first truck we can lay a line from the first truck.

  17. #17
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff
    Does the truck company need to get in before the road closes??? Many factors to consider, but in any case if there is any kind of indication that it could be work, first in Engine Co. should always drop a line.
    Our SOP/SOG is the first engine drops a line with smoke on approach, or called as a working fire. First engine in is followed by a truck, and positions so the truck has priority setting, if possible. All other engines also lay a hydrant line. Usually by the second due, hydrants have been located by either the first due, or other, for the incoming units to hook up to.

    FM1
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  18. #18
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    We foward lay from a hydrant on reports of smoke and fire in SFD's, other type residences and, small commercial. It is our thought process that it is much better to pack hose several times in a shift then to miss a hydrant. Not having a hydrant on a fire is shameful for the company. It show complacency and lazyness. It really does not take that long to rack back a couple hundred feet of line. Not to mention my BC makes us lay double the distance if we miss a hydrant after the fire is over!

    Our SOP states that the first in will forward lay from the closest hydrant. The 2nd due will lay from the next closest hydrant at the very least on all working fires.

    For large commerical, industrial, high rise (this does not really affect my district) we do not lay in until the location of the fire is confirmed.

  19. #19
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    RFD21C, how many do you ride on the engines?

  20. #20
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    We ride with 4 on each quint company and 5 on each rescue company. about 90% of our lays are less then 500'.

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