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  1. #21
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Comes from personal observation as well as discussions with other governmental workers. I have a friend who works at DSS. She has no backlog and gets the work down in a timely manner. Others in the office spend a large portion of their time on breaks and chit chatting. And the reward for doing your work is you get to do other peoples work as well.
    This coming from someone who was outsmarted by a credit card.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, Science and Math teachers should make more. The salaries should be based on what the particular skill set could earn in Private Industry.
    If they can make that in the private industry and they want to make that then go to private industry. The thought that a Math/Science teacher could make more in private industry than say an artist is ludicrous. I know graphic artist making well over 200K. She is very skilled and very good at her job. Take Maya Angelou, should all English/Poetry teacher be based on her income?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    It is amazing that all of your friends are hard workers and everyone else are slackers. How about less anecdotal examples and a few more hard facts.
    That is because birds of a feather flock together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BSFD9302 View Post
    If they can make that in the private industry and they want to make that then go to private industry. The thought that a Math/Science teacher could make more in private industry than say an artist is ludicrous. I know graphic artist making well over 200K. She is very skilled and very good at her job. Take Maya Angelou, should all English/Poetry teacher be based on her income?
    I also now of many starving artist.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    ScareCrow57 I am sure you will find exception with these numbers but take them for what it is worth. Still if they did make $107,000\yr it would be a fair wage for a degree and the other qualifications a teacher needs.
    Those are average salaries. They also show a 20% increase over a 10 year period. In NYS in 2005 the average was $56,200. Assuming 8 hour days teachers work 1440 hours per year; many work far less. A person who works 52 weeks a year puts in 2080 hours. This number includes sick days vacation days and holidays. However, in round numbers a teacher works 3/4 of a year. Extending that pay for a full years work you get to $74,933. Now throw in the excellent pension system and no cost health care (for life) and you have a very great salary. In fact, we have some retired teachers who are complaining around here because they might have to start paying a co-pay on their insurance.

  6. #26
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, Science and Math teachers should make more. The salaries should be based on what the particular skill set could earn in Private Industry.
    So you want Private Industry and "free market" to dictate what topics our kids are taught? That's basically what you're saying.. A dangerous slope if you ask me.
    So you call this your free country
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  7. #27
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    That is because birds of a feather flock together.
    Then why are you posting on a firefighter's website????
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  8. #28
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    It is amazing that all of your friends are hard workers and everyone else are slackers. How about less anecdotal examples and a few more hard facts.
    More than likely, it is his friends who are the slackers projecting their behavior onto the hard workers.

    Like he stated, winged bipeds of identical plummage, tend to congregate.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    So you want Private Industry and "free market" to dictate what topics our kids are taught? That's basically what you're saying.. A dangerous slope if you ask me.
    Actually, not that far off. We are supposed to be preparing the youth of this country so they can be productive citizens of the society. That means getting jobs in private industry. What use is it to learn a foreign language if there are no jobs needing foreign languages.

    I've seen many a college grad looking back and saying they wasted 4 years of their life because they got a liberal learning degree, or an art degree, or a music degree. In fact, my brother has a degree in music. The only place he can apply this degree is teaching. He doesn't want to be a teacher. So he has a practically useless degree.

  10. #30
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    I've always thought that we shouldn't elect lawyers to Congress to be law makers.
    If we shouldn't have people who have worked in the oil industry be industry regulators because they might work to the benefit of the "Ol' Boys' Club",why wouldn't we think that of lawyers whose biggest ambition is to make laws and figure out ways that they don't have to live by those laws like the citizenry does?Can you say"Conflict of interest" ?I know you can.
    Why NOT send to represent us people who have to worry that their next paycheck won't cover this week's bills and understand that their actions DO affect others even if they don't intend them to?

  11. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, not that far off. We are supposed to be preparing the youth of this country so they can be productive citizens of the society. That means getting jobs in private industry. What use is it to learn a foreign language if there are no jobs needing foreign languages.

    I've seen many a college grad looking back and saying they wasted 4 years of their life because they got a liberal learning degree, or an art degree, or a music degree. In fact, my brother has a degree in music. The only place he can apply this degree is teaching. He doesn't want to be a teacher. So he has a practically useless degree.
    There is a huge difference between basing the curriculum on what is applicable in today's world and having it dictated by private industry. Having industry (or governments.. or religions) control the educational system gives them way too much power.. Given their various agendas it would be a very BadThing.

    And just because something cannot be done as a profession does not mean that the topic is not applicable in today's world. To use your example: Should we not teach Music in schools just because your brother was unable to get a job in that field? The goal of schools should not be to produce one-topic automatons.. it is to produce smart, well rounded kids who can think for themselves and apply ALL of the knowledge.

    BTW: my roommate in college was a music/physics double major. He was able to apply both and get a very (very very) nice job.

    and WTF does ANY of this have to do with the original topic?
    Last edited by voyager9; 07-07-2010 at 03:02 PM.
    So you call this your free country
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    Why NOT send to represent us people who have to worry that their next paycheck won't cover this week's bills and understand that their actions DO affect others even if they don't intend them to?
    When reading McCullough's book on John Adams I was reminded that the government used to shut down during harvest season (now called "Fall Recess"). When his term was over he went back to being a farmer.

    I think we would all be better off if the quest for political office did not end up like a self fulfilling prophecy. If these guys had to go back to the Real World I think they would be much more grounded.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  13. #33
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I've seen many a college grad looking back and saying they wasted 4 years of their life because they got a liberal learning degree, or an art degree, or a music degree. In fact, my brother has a degree in music. The only place he can apply this degree is teaching. He doesn't want to be a teacher. So he has a practically useless degree.
    Apparently the apples didn't fall too far apart.

    I know a music major who is the lead computer programmer for a local aerospace company.

    Don't know how he ended up there.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  14. #34
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    I think we would all be better off if the quest for political office did not end up like a self fulfilling prophecy. If these guys had to go back to the Real World I think they would be much more grounded.
    Might have been a good idea back then. The US wasn't the superpower it is today. The US is now a multi trillion dollar a year entity.

    As far as politicos going back to the real world. Many of them came from the so called "real world" and were quite good at what enabled them to run for public office.

    Fully half of congress reports personal assets in excess of a million dollars. One (Issa (R-CA)) is worth $500M. Many are worth eight and nine digit sums. Acquired before they ran for office.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  15. #35
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Apparently the apples didn't fall too far apart.

    I know a music major who is the lead computer programmer for a local aerospace company.

    Don't know how he ended up there.
    Funny you mention that. I knew a fellow in High School had a perfect SAT score. He studied classical guitar.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Funny you mention that. I knew a fellow in High School had a perfect SAT score. He studied classical guitar.
    I'd be interested in knowing how many college grads are earning a living in their field of study.

    I'd be surprised if it's even half.

    When I retired we had hired numerous college grads. Few if any had studied fire science.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    You find this excessive, for a 4 to 6 year degree with professional certifications?



    Link please, or are these just more numbers you have pulled from thin air?
    Thin air? more than likely out of his anal orifice....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Comes from personal observation as well as discussions with other governmental workers. I have a friend who works at DSS.
    Your caseworker?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, not that far off. We are supposed to be preparing the youth of this country so they can be productive citizens of the society. That means getting jobs in private industry. What use is it to learn a foreign language if there are no jobs needing foreign languages.
    God you are dumb. Do you think that the entire planet has English as their first language? It's a GLOBAL ECONOMY!

    I've seen many a college grad looking back and saying they wasted 4 years of their life because they got a liberal learning degree, or an art degree, or a music degree. In fact, my brother has a degree in music. The only place he can apply this degree is teaching. He doesn't want to be a teacher. So he has a practically useless degree.
    I also know of people with degrees in the sciences that became disillusioned with the corporate rat race and are happy working in their own businesses... far removed from the computer room, laboratory and the corporate offices...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    In fact, my brother has a degree in music. The only place he can apply this degree is teaching. He doesn't want to be a teacher. So he has a practically useless degree.
    So why did he major in music?

    Did he research his degree and see what the average salary for a music major is? Did he do research to see what percentage of music majors find employment in their field after graduation, both nationally and from his school? Did he research the different fields of employment his degree would allow him to work?

    Or did he just like to play instruments and figure "Hey I'll major in music"?

    Why is it the fault of the college and the department of education that your brother picked a crappy major?
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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