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    Default Wonder why our we can't get good leaders in the U.S. Government?

    TRENDING: Just how much can you make at the White House?
    (CNN) Working at the White House includes long days, work on the weekends, and a demanding, high profile boss.

    But just how good's the pay at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.?

    According to a salary list released Thursday, 23 White House staffers make $172,000, while two "detailees" Michael Harsh and Timothy Love top the list at nearly $180,000. "Detailees" are employees from other government offices who have been assigned to work at the White House for a period of time.

    The majority of President Obama's senior aides including Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, and adviser David Axelrod make $172,000 a year the same salary they made last year because the president ordered a freeze of top-level White House salaries.

    But the majority of staffers make considerably less, with the average salary is $82,700 a year, while the median employee salary is $66,000. The lowest full time salary is just under $38,000 a year.

    Obama himself earns $400,000.

    In all, the White House employs 469 staff members for a total payroll of nearly $40 million.
    $40 million in total Salary with the top executive of the largest corporation in America making $400,000. All the good talent goes into private industry where salaries are easily 10 times and often 1,000 times this amount. And to make it even better there are far less hassles and far less scrutiny in private industry. We have the worse minds in the country running the country.

    And for the knuckleheads who think with D's and R's instead of logic this applies unilaterally across all politicians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    TRENDING: Just how much can you make at the White House?


    $40 million in total Salary with the top executive of the largest corporation in America making $400,000. All the good talent goes into private industry where salaries are easily 10 times and often 1,000 times this amount. And to make it even better there are far less hassles and far less scrutiny in private industry. We have the worse minds in the country running the country.

    And for the knuckleheads who think with D's and R's instead of logic this applies unilaterally across all politicians.
    You are right. ALL government employees must be paid more money to compete with private industry.

    I would start with Teachers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    You are right. ALL government employees must be paid more money to compete with private industry.

    I would start with Teachers.
    Chief, I have to slightly disagree with you regarding teachers. Considering the 2.5 months off in the Summer, a week of in February, a week off in April, and the numerous long weekends due to holidays, and another week off between Christmas and New Years......Most are fairly well compensated when you calculate out the hours worked.

    I know that this is a politically incorrect thing to say. Here in Massachusetts, by law, they will teach for 180 days (plus 5 "snow" days.) Most also get 10-15 sick days to take per year.

    When compared to the number of days worked by the Monday-Friday crowd they are pretty well compensated. Especially considering that they receive pretty good benefits, and a retirement pension.

    I know, I know, they put in hours after the normal school day to prepare and the like, however so don't a lot of other folks in private industry. Usually they are compensated well compared to the incomes of most families in the community in which they work.

    It's a tough job. An admirable job. However, I usually have to disagree that teachers are not well compensated for the work that they do. Teaching is definitely one of those professions that you do because you love it, and not necessarily because of the pay. I also understand that there are a some places that they are not paid as well as others, but by and large they are paid well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Chief, I have to slightly disagree with you regarding teachers. Considering the 2.5 months off in the Summer, a week of in February, a week off in April, and the numerous long weekends due to holidays, and another week off between Christmas and New Years......Most are fairly well compensated when you calculate out the hours worked
    My comment was tongue in cheek... The joker I responded to goes on and on about how government workers are overpaid and then posts that we'll never get good talent because the pay is low.

    Just pointing out another inconsistency of his.

    Although, there aren't many jobs where a college graduate starts out making 40k/year (when annualized, to eliminate having the summers off).
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    My comment was tongue in cheek... The joker I responded to goes on and on about how government workers are overpaid and then posts that we'll never get good talent because the pay is low.

    Just pointing out another inconsistency of his.

    Although, there aren't many jobs where a college graduate starts out making 40k/year (when annualized, to eliminate having the summers off).
    Well done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    My comment was tongue in cheek... The joker I responded to goes on and on about how government workers are overpaid and then posts that we'll never get good talent because the pay is low.

    Just pointing out another inconsistency of his.

    Although, there aren't many jobs where a college graduate starts out making 40k/year (when annualized, to eliminate having the summers off).
    Actually, the government system is whacked and is more socialist in nature. The lower rungs of the ladder get overpaid while the upper rungs are underpaid.

    As for teachers they are paid extremely well if not overpaid. Teachers work 1440 hours a year, based on an 8 hour day. The average person on the street works 2080 hours a year. However, on a few occasions teachers will put in extra hours, especially the new ones. In our area, the medium income is around $40,000. We have teachers making over $100,000. One such teacher is an art teacher making $107,000!!!!! WTF!!! That is highway robbery.

    Not all government workers are overpaid. Some make exactly what the Private counter parts make. The problem with government employees is that 25% of them put in a full day and do a really good job. 50% put in 5 hours of work for 8 hours of pay and do so-so. Then there is the bottom 25% who are just useless and add nothing. On this front, the government has no incentive to increase productivity or efficiency, so they tolerate lax behavior. And I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but from what have witnessed first hand at both the federal and stale level we aren't getting our monies worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Well done.
    Yes you are...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Not all government workers are overpaid. Some make exactly what the Private counter parts make. The problem with government employees is that 25% of them put in a full day and do a really good job. 50% put in 5 hours of work for 8 hours of pay and do so-so. Then there is the bottom 25% who are just useless and add nothing. On this front, the government has no incentive to increase productivity or efficiency, so they tolerate lax behavior. And I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but from what have witnessed first hand at both the federal and stale level we aren't getting our monies worth.
    Could you show us your source for this statement? More than likely it is your usual bovine scatology.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes you are...
    That must be why you follow me around touting nonsense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    As for teachers they are paid extremely well if not overpaid. Teachers work 1440 hours a year, based on an 8 hour day. The average person on the street works 2080 hours a year. However, on a few occasions teachers will put in extra hours, especially the new ones. In our area, the medium income is around $40,000. We have teachers making over $100,000. One such teacher is an art teacher making $107,000!!!!! WTF!!! That is highway robbery.
    There are some inconsistencies in teacher pay, no doubt. People like you always point to the very extremes and proclaim that ALL teachers are overpaid.

    My wife who had a double major, became a teacher and started at 36K. As you said, they don't work a full year, but work 9.5/12 months. Oh, and she worked in a very nice suburban district, where the pay was "good".

    So, what does that 36k amount to if she did work 12 months. If you extrapolate that it's a whopping 45k for someone who not only had a double major in college, but then went on to become certified as a professional teacher. Don't forget to deduct the 500 or so dollars she would spend every year out of pocket on supplies and stuff (saw it first hand).

    I can assure you that there are far more teachers making <50k then there are more then >50k. You're a google expert, research that yourself.

    Worst Paying College Degrees:

    College Degrees Starting Salary Mid-career median salary

    1.Social Work $33,400 $41,600
    2.Elementary Education $33,000 $42,400
    3.Theology $34,800 $51,500
    4.Music $34,000 $52,000
    5.Spanish $35,600 $52,600
    6.Horticulture $37,200 $53,400
    7.Education $36,200 $54,100
    8.Hospitality/Tourism $37,000 $54,300
    9.Fine Arts $35,800 $56,300
    10.Drama $35,600 $56,600

    http://moneywatch.bnet.com/saving-mo...by-salary/577/

    Not all government workers are overpaid. Some make exactly what the Private counter parts make. The problem with government employees is that 25% of them put in a full day and do a really good job. 50% put in 5 hours of work for 8 hours of pay and do so-so. Then there is the bottom 25% who are just useless and add nothing. On this front, the government has no incentive to increase productivity or efficiency, so they tolerate lax behavior. And I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but from what have witnessed first hand at both the federal and stale level we aren't getting our monies worth.
    That's a whole lot of nothing in that paragraph. A lot of generalizations and non facts.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 07-06-2010 at 08:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    My comment was tongue in cheek... The joker I responded to goes on and on about how government workers are overpaid and then posts that we'll never get good talent because the pay is low.

    Just pointing out another inconsistency of his.

    Although, there aren't many jobs where a college graduate starts out making 40k/year (when annualized, to eliminate having the summers off).
    Understood. One of the easy misunderstandings in the one-dimentionality of the internet communication world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    However, on a few occasions teachers will put in extra hours, especially the new ones. In our area, the medium income is around $40,000.
    You find this excessive, for a 4 to 6 year degree with professional certifications?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    We have teachers making over $100,000. One such teacher is an art teacher making $107,000!!!!! WTF!!! That is highway robbery.
    Link please, or are these just more numbers you have pulled from thin air?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    In our area, the medium income is around $40,000. We have teachers making over $100,000. One such teacher is an art teacher making $107,000!!!!! WTF!!! That is highway robbery.
    How do you recommend a teacher's specialty affect their pay? Should a science teacher earn more then an art teacher? How about Music? History?

    The only thing I know is that every time you post your math teacher hangs her head in shame..
    So you call this your free country
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    The only thing I know is that every time you post your math teacher hangs her head in shame..
    As does the Psych teacher that taught him logic. Which I'm believe didn't happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    There are some inconsistencies in teacher pay, no doubt. People like you always point to the very extremes and proclaim that ALL teachers are overpaid.

    My wife who had a double major, became a teacher and started at 36K. As you said, they don't work a full year, but work 9.5/12 months. Oh, and she worked in a very nice suburban district, where the pay was "good".

    So, what does that 36k amount to if she did work 12 months. If you extrapolate that it's a whopping 45k for someone who not only had a double major in college, but then went on to become certified as a professional teacher. Don't forget to deduct the 500 or so dollars she would spend every year out of pocket on supplies and stuff (saw it first hand).

    I can assure you that there are far more teachers making <50k then there are more then >50k. You're a google expert, research that yourself.

    Worst Paying College Degrees:

    College Degrees Starting Salary Mid-career median salary

    1.Social Work $33,400 $41,600
    2.Elementary Education $33,000 $42,400
    3.Theology $34,800 $51,500
    4.Music $34,000 $52,000
    5.Spanish $35,600 $52,600
    6.Horticulture $37,200 $53,400
    7.Education $36,200 $54,100
    8.Hospitality/Tourism $37,000 $54,300
    9.Fine Arts $35,800 $56,300
    10.Drama $35,600 $56,600

    http://moneywatch.bnet.com/saving-mo...by-salary/577/



    That's a whole lot of nothing in that paragraph. A lot of generalizations and non facts.

    Of course that is the flip side. Starting salaries. Somewhere the notion has been made that as each year passes the teachers are more valuable. So they start out low and rise to normal and then go high. I agree starting salaries are low. But those starting salaries don't paint the entire picture. They also need to add in the benefits and the pension plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    You find this excessive, for a 4 to 6 year degree with professional certifications?

    Good lord man. Read twice then comment. The statement is the medium income in the area is $40,000. This includes all of the people, not just those with degrees.
    Link please, or are these just more numbers you have pulled from thin air?
    SeeThroughNY

    You can go onto this site and get the salary of any public employee in NYS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    How do you recommend a teacher's specialty affect their pay? Should a science teacher earn more then an art teacher? How about Music? History?

    The only thing I know is that every time you post your math teacher hangs her head in shame..
    Actually, Science and Math teachers should make more. The salaries should be based on what the particular skill set could earn in Private Industry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Could you show us your source for this statement? More than likely it is your usual bovine scatology..
    Comes from personal observation as well as discussions with other governmental workers. I have a friend who works at DSS. She has no backlog and gets the work down in a timely manner. Others in the office spend a large portion of their time on breaks and chit chatting. And the reward for doing your work is you get to do other peoples work as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Of course that is the flip side. Starting salaries. Somewhere the notion has been made that as each year passes the teachers are more valuable. So they start out low and rise to normal and then go high. I agree starting salaries are low. But those starting salaries don't paint the entire picture. They also need to add in the benefits and the pension plan.
    Read closer... those were MID CAREER numbers.

    Salaries are the largest part of the picture. Just as they get good benefits, those in the private sector get bonuses, etc.

    I'll give you those great public teacher benefits if you give up 30k in your salary. Doesn't sound so fair now, huh?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Table 8-9
    Public school teacher salaries, by state: 1995, 2000, and 2005
    (Dollars)

    State 1995 2000 2005

    United States 36,685 41,807 47,750
    Alabama 31,144 36,689 38,863
    Alaska 47,951 46,462 52,424
    Arizona 32,574 36,902 42,905
    Arkansas 28,934 33,386 40,495
    California 41,078 47,680 57,876
    Colorado 34,571 38,163 44,161
    Connecticut 50,045 51,780 58,688
    Delaware 39,076 44,435 50,869
    District of Columbia 43,700 47,076 58,456
    Florida 32,588 36,722 41,081
    Georgia 32,291 41,023 46,526
    Hawaii 38,518 40,578 44,273
    Idaho 29,783 35,547 42,122
    Illinois 39,431 46,486 55,629
    Indiana 36,785 41,850 46,851
    Iowa 31,511 35,678 40,347
    Kansas 34,652 34,981 39,190
    Kentucky 32,257 36,380 41,002
    Louisiana 26,461 33,109 38,880
    Maine 31,972 35,561 40,940
    Maryland 40,661 44,048 52,331
    Massachusetts 40,718 46,580 54,596
    Michigan 41,895 49,044 55,693
    Minnesota 35,948 39,802 46,906
    Mississippi 26,818 31,857 36,590
    Missouri 31,189 35,656 38,971
    Montana 28,785 32,121 38,485
    Nebraska 30,922 33,237 39,456
    Nevada 34,836 39,390 43,394
    New Hampshire 34,720 37,734 43,941
    New Jersey 47,038 52,015 56,600
    New Mexico 28,493 32,554 39,328
    New York 47,612 51,020 56,200
    North Carolina 30,793 39,404 43,313
    North Dakota 26,327 29,863 36,449
    Ohio 36,802 41,436 48,692
    Oklahoma 28,172 31,298 37,141
    Oregon 38,555 42,336 50,790
    Pennsylvania 44,510 48,321 52,700
    Rhode Island 40,729 47,041 53,473
    South Carolina 30,279 36,081 42,207
    South Dakota 25,994 29,071 34,040
    Tennessee 32,477 36,328 41,527
    Texas 31,223 37,567 41,009
    Utah 29,082 34,946 39,965
    Vermont 35,406 37,758 44,535
    Virginia 33,987 38,744 44,763
    Washington 36,151 41,043 45,712
    West Virginia 31,944 35,009 38,360
    Wisconsin 37,746 41,153 43,466
    Wyoming 31,285 34,127 40,392

    National Science Foundation
    ScareCrow57 I am sure you will find exception with these numbers but take them for what it is worth. Still if they did make $107,000\yr it would be a fair wage for a degree and the other qualifications a teacher needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Comes from personal observation as well as discussions with other governmental workers. I have a friend who works at DSS. She has no backlog and gets the work down in a timely manner. Others in the office spend a large portion of their time on breaks and chit chatting. And the reward for doing your work is you get to do other peoples work as well.
    It is amazing that all of your friends are hard workers and everyone else are slackers. How about less anecdotal examples and a few more hard facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Comes from personal observation as well as discussions with other governmental workers. I have a friend who works at DSS. She has no backlog and gets the work down in a timely manner. Others in the office spend a large portion of their time on breaks and chit chatting. And the reward for doing your work is you get to do other peoples work as well.
    This coming from someone who was outsmarted by a credit card.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, Science and Math teachers should make more. The salaries should be based on what the particular skill set could earn in Private Industry.
    If they can make that in the private industry and they want to make that then go to private industry. The thought that a Math/Science teacher could make more in private industry than say an artist is ludicrous. I know graphic artist making well over 200K. She is very skilled and very good at her job. Take Maya Angelou, should all English/Poetry teacher be based on her income?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    It is amazing that all of your friends are hard workers and everyone else are slackers. How about less anecdotal examples and a few more hard facts.
    That is because birds of a feather flock together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BSFD9302 View Post
    If they can make that in the private industry and they want to make that then go to private industry. The thought that a Math/Science teacher could make more in private industry than say an artist is ludicrous. I know graphic artist making well over 200K. She is very skilled and very good at her job. Take Maya Angelou, should all English/Poetry teacher be based on her income?
    I also now of many starving artist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    ScareCrow57 I am sure you will find exception with these numbers but take them for what it is worth. Still if they did make $107,000\yr it would be a fair wage for a degree and the other qualifications a teacher needs.
    Those are average salaries. They also show a 20% increase over a 10 year period. In NYS in 2005 the average was $56,200. Assuming 8 hour days teachers work 1440 hours per year; many work far less. A person who works 52 weeks a year puts in 2080 hours. This number includes sick days vacation days and holidays. However, in round numbers a teacher works 3/4 of a year. Extending that pay for a full years work you get to $74,933. Now throw in the excellent pension system and no cost health care (for life) and you have a very great salary. In fact, we have some retired teachers who are complaining around here because they might have to start paying a co-pay on their insurance.

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