Help with Hose loads

[mccookfire36]

Ok brothers and sisters, I am looking for some photos, or videos of how to properly load a minuteman load or "philly" load.
I am working on putting together some ideas for easier loads on our trucks. Right now we load everything in a flat load and I am tired of the "bowl of spagetti" that happens with the flat load cross lay when we unload it.
I really like the cleveland load but since most of our trucks have room for a double stack the cleveland load seems impractical.
Any help would be appreciated

[tree68]

If you want to see a bowl of spaghetti, pull a "minuteman" wrong.

We stay with a flat load in our preconnects (with two or three pull loops) because it can be laid by just about anyone (and I may well have mutual aid folks or rookies helping pack it back up), and it doesn't matter if someone pulls a loop or the nozzle off the top.

KISS applies, unless you're well drilled on pulling it and laying it back in.

[medic190]

KISS applies, unless you're well drilled on pulling it and laying it back in.

I agree with that!!! I love the simplicity of the triple layer load for packing and deployment HOWEVER: it does take some practice to pack / pull it...

Simple flat load is probably best...

[Capt387]

Triple load.... definitely the way to go. walk 66ft away from the truck and a 200 ft cross lay is deployed in a Z fashion. We used the minute man for years until I was shown the triple load. I approached the chief with this thought process:

1. with back injuries being an easy occurance why are we putting an additional load of 150ft of 1.75 when you don't have to carry any of the load in a triple load.

2. You arent runing two houses down trying to lay off the 150ft on your back just to get to the door, just go 66ft away from the truck and its ready.

[GTRider245]

FYI what's normally referred to as the "Philly Load" is the triple layer load. And just like the "Cleveland Load" according to the guys who work in those cities nither load came from there.

I love the triple layer. We ran flat loads for the last 60 years in my volunteer department. It took me one night and one evolution of loading and deploying the triple layer to have everyone sold on it. We now use it for all speedlays and the 2 1/2" preconnect on the rear. With the paid department, we are using the Minuteman for everything. Triple layer was not recieved well by the guys who are set in thier ways here. Both departments are using the Cleveland for high rise packs.

It may take a little time training with the new load, but in the long run it will be worth it. Flat load is an outdated and lazy way of loading hose. This video proves that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njrJAOfz0ho

[mccookfire36]

Ok, thanks guys for the info. We run a small comination dept, and looking for things that definately fall under the KISS method. We have several guys with injuries and I am always looking for ways to IMPROVE what we do, and not doing something just because its always been done that way.

[nameless]

it sounds like you need to practice deploying hose lines. I don't want to sound harsh but if spaghetti is the problem its not the hose load, its the people. There may be other loads better suited for the neighborhoods you run in, but spaghetti is the fault of the firefighter and not the hose load.

It may take a little time training with the new load, but in the long run it will be worth it. Flat load is an outdated and lazy way of loading hose. This video proves that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njrJAOfz0ho

That statement is so off base and idiotic. The flat load has its advantages in certain situations, just like the other loads do. All that video shows is that the "philly load" is better if I'm going to stretch a line straight off the back of the engine for 50-60ft. Also the alleged fireman stretching the flat load did it horribly. That video proves that dept. has their mind made up and needed a crappy video to prove to themselves they are right.

[dday05]

The minute man is nice. We have been doing the triple layer for a while now. Works well for us and it works out ok when the excited pump operater charges a line just a bit to early.

[GTRider245]

That statement is so off base and idiotic. The flat load has its advantages in certain situations, just like the other loads do. All that video shows is that the "philly load" is better if I'm going to stretch a line straight off the back of the engine for 50-60ft. Also the alleged fireman stretching the flat load did it horribly. That video proves that dept. has their mind made up and needed a crappy video to prove to themselves they are right.

I can think of no situation where I would want a flat load over any of the others. More so when you have one man normally pulling your lines by himself. I have yet to have problems deploying a triple layer from directions other than straight off the truck. As long as it is loaded right, it will deploy right.

Most people use the flat load becuase it takes pretty much no training to load and deploy and that is what people have used for years becuase that's all they knew. Any monkey can load a hose flat loaded. The same monkey can deploy it. It takes effort to learn any other load, and that's why most oppose it. If that is off base and idiotic, then so be it. But thanks for lowering the overall intelligence level of the thread with name calling.

[nameless]

The key is I said you're statement was idiotic, not you. Very big difference.

If any "monkey" can deploy a flat load, then why do people whine and complain about it creating spaghetti and being too hard to deploy? You are right that it isn't the best fit for one man deployments, but it is a very useful load in urban environments. Especially when you have a larger hose bed and often are breaking the lines down to shorter lengths.

I'd say the grab the loops and walk hose loads are the ones the monkeys can deploy.

[GTRider245]

If any "monkey" can deploy a flat load, then why do people whine and complain about it creating spaghetti and being too hard to deploy?.

Comination of a training issue and laziness. Even the ones who know how to pull it right will often grab the bottom loops and create that pile at the truck. I can't make someone not be lazy, but I can put a load on the truck that even the laziest POS on the department can pull without screwing up.

You are right that it isn't the best fit for one man deployments, but it is a very useful load in urban environments. Especially when you have a larger hose bed and often are breaking the lines down to shorter lengths..

Is this a preconnected situation or a static bed? Static bed I agree with you.

[hwoods]

Don't reinvent the same old wheel again. Got a Preconnect Discharge? couple a section of Hose to it, and fold it in flat, then continue adding more sections of hose until you have enough. Put a Nozzle on the end, and leave the Nozzle laying on top of the Load. When you need that line, take the nozzle and go. Trust Me, the Hose WILL follow you. The driver checks the bed to be sure it's empty, then charges the line. KISS........

[nameless]

Is this a preconnected situation or a static bed? Static bed I agree with you.

The beds that are preconnects usually have 250 ft sometimes 300, so we often find ourselves using it like a static bed even though its preconnected.


Maybe I'm taking the wrong way, but the attitude that flat loads make spaghetti so we'll just find an easier load seems so wrong. We're suppose to be firemen, we should be able to handle stretching a line. Understaffed places that need 1 guy to easily stretch is one thing, but people screwing up flat loads is entirely different. Lets be good at the basics of firefighting.

[LeatherHed4Life]

It may take a little time training with the new load, but in the long run it will be worth it. Flat load is an outdated and lazy way of loading hose. This video proves that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njrJAOfz0ho

that was a lame video, and I probably wont be off base in saying no one has come off a truck to fight a fire like that. Even thought the triple lay is nice, you should still take time to flake the hose properly at the door or atleast bring the first coupling so you dont have to advance all 65+ feet of hose or more if your stretching farther. "Rushing " will usually make things longer/harder in the end.

Take time to make time.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Flat load: face the pump panel/preconnect. Pull the load onto your shoulder while turning away from the panel. the line will deploy nice and easy...

I swear we make things more difficult than they have to be... work SMARTER, not HARDER!

[tree68]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the "circular" lay which showed up on YouTube with the other video. Interesting concept, but everybody who used it mentioned 125-150 PSI, which would be a tad high if you're running a straight tip. That's the first time I've seen that one.

We stack our flat load with a couple of pull loops. The first is a couple of layers up, the second about half to two-thirds into the lay (as you're laying it), to be pulled by the person taking the nozzle.

[VincentEng2]

I think that you just need to test them out and see what works for you. We use the triple load on our 1 3/4 Crosslays as they allow you to pull the load from either direction. A "PROPERLY" loaded minuteman only allows you one direction of pull. Now we do have a 2 1/2 preconnect on the rear of the truck which we do have loaded in a minuteman, for ease of deploying hose up stairwells and around “rat maze” type structures. We keep 100 ft on the shoulder and 100 foot in the truck it’s nice because you only have to drag 100 ft, and the rest you can flake off your shoulder as you make turns.

Like I said my only suggestion would be to break out the essentials and try the loads for yourself. Just take them slow and steady at first. Crawl before you walk, before you run. The impatient of excited firefighter can screw up a hose pull just as quick as a excited engineer. Every hose load out there can be screwed up due to complacency, and excitement.

Hope that helps.

[GTRider245]

How are you loading your minute man loads? Ours pull from either side with ease.

[VincentEng2]

A "PROPERLY" loaded minuteman only allows you one direction of pull.

How are you loading your minute man loads? Ours pull from either side with ease.

From IFSTA Essentials of Fire Fighting 4th Edition

Skill Set 12-17 P.461

1. Connect the first section of hose to the discharge outlet. Do not connect it to the other lengths of hose.
2. Lay the hose flat in the bed to the front.
3. Lay the remaining hose out the front of the bed to be loaded later.
4. Couple the remaining hose sections together.
5. Attach a nozzle to the male end.
6. Place the nozzle on top of the first length at the rear.
7. Angle the hose to the opposite side of the bed and make a fold.
8. Lay the hose back to the rear.
9. Make a fold at the rear of the bed.
10. Angle the hose back to the other side to make a fold at the front.
11. Continue alternating sides of the bed in the same manner untill the complete length is loaded.
12. Connect the male coupling of the first section to the female coupling of the last section.
13. Lay the remainder of the first section in the bed in the same manner.

The end

Now yes I have seen some goofy minuteman loads that were place on crosslays that sometimes worked and most of the time didn't. Your system may work for you guys. I stated a "PROPERLY LOADED MINUTEMAN" Per the IFSTA Essentials of firefighting, is designed to be pulled from a rear hose bed in one direction.

Hope that clarifies the situation.

[whfd hems 930]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the "circular" lay which showed up on YouTube with the other video. Interesting concept, but everybody who used it mentioned 125-150 PSI, which would be a tad high if you're running a straight tip. That's the first time I've seen that one.

We stack our flat load with a couple of pull loops. The first is a couple of layers up, the second about half to two-thirds into the lay (as you're laying it), to be pulled by the person taking the nozzle.

Actual name for that load is the roundabout and that is what we use. 50' rolled up, grab that and throw it on your shoulder, set it down at the door for interior attack,and spread the middle out, and that way you are only having to deal with 50 ' of line. The 125 psi is used to "inflate" the roll at the door so you can pull into the structure easily. All of our engines are set at 125 psi preset so that is not a big deal for us.