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    Default Darien, CT Sends Aerialscope to Seagrave for Rechassis and Refurb

    PRESS RELEASE:

    LINK TO DEAWING: http://darienfire.org/misc_content/PE57000%20051910.pdf

    Darien, CT Sends Aerialscope to Seagrave for Rechassis and Refurb
    Darienís oldest fire apparatus, a 1971 Mack / Baker Aerialscope (Tower Ladder 43), started its 1,054 mile journey today to Seagrave Fire Apparatus in Clintonville, Wisconsin.

    After years of careful consideration and research, the department has embarked on a project to re-chassis the apparatus. The metal structures that make up the original truckís aerial boom, bucket, jacks, turntable, and superstructure, will be removed from the old Mack CF600 truck. These structures will be inspected, overhauled, re-built, and tested at Seagrave Fire Apparatus. These components will meet or exceed the standards of those that are new.

    While the work is done to the original aerial components, a new truck is being built. When complete, a new Seagrave Aerialscope will be returned to Darien, early in 2011.

    This strategy saves the town about $300,000. Additionally, the new tower ladder will have a single rear axle with a short overall vehicle length (for improved maneuverability), a low vehicle height (for fitting under railroad bridges), and will remain an extremely safe and versatile fire apparatus to serve Darien for another generation.
    LINK TO DEAWING: http://darienfire.org/misc_content/PE57000%20051910.pdf

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    The link makes my computer go into vapor lock.....
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    The link makes my computer go into vapor lock.....
    Dump a CO2 extinguisher on it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    The link makes my computer go into vapor lock.....
    Time to clear all the history, temp file and sites you been to overloading the system and making it s l o w
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    In the drawing it notes it'll have a ISL-425 HP. I find that a little interesting but probably more powerful than the orignal Mack engine...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMastr28 View Post
    In the drawing it notes it'll have a ISL-425 HP. I find that a little interesting but probably more powerful than the orignal Mack engine...
    Most re-chassis Aerialscope that I have seen were equiped with 450- 515 HP big block motors, but the scope should be fine with the Cummins 425. There old Mack CF may have only a 237 HP motor with a 5 speed tranny with top speed of about 50 mph on a open highway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    Most re-chassis Aerialscope that I have seen were equiped with 450- 515 HP big block motors, but the scope should be fine with the Cummins 425. There old Mack CF may have only a 237 HP motor with a 5 speed tranny with top speed of about 50 mph on a open highway?
    Depending on chassis #it could be a 237,300,or in RARE instances a 350. The Isl has more HP but the Torque will be similar to the old Mack. T.C.

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    Most 75' quint sticks come standard with a 400-425 hp Cummins motor, carrying 400 gallons of water, but I would think that the Scope apparatus would be much more weight ?
    Last edited by WoodbridgeFFII; 07-30-2010 at 07:36 PM.

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    The 425 ISL is lighter weight then the Big Block options and is a pretty strong motor itself. Same as dealing with a Quint, the single screw aerialscope is a weight game... so saving a few hundred pounds here and there makes a big deal in the end.

    Woodbridge - Strictly opinion here, but I would venture to say that the 75' aerialscope remount, fully loaded, is close in weight but probably a little less then a 75' quint fully loaded with 400 - 500 gallons of water on and 6 men in the cab. Eitherway, there's only so much you can put on a 51k single rear chassis and no manufacturer today is going to knowingly overload a chassis.

    Back to the ISL motor - our new KoolAidQuint has the ISL 425 as well. In appleton last week, that thing flew around very nicely - sadly it was very comparable to our current rig and its 475 8V92 which we are near and dear with. (Smokes alot less too) Again though, I'm certain that 8V92 weights an amazing amount more then the ISL does. (CE11... Yardo... anyone know off the top of their head?)
    Last edited by laddertruckgoes; 07-31-2010 at 10:55 AM.
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    Everything I state on here is to support and aid my fellow firefighters. Everything I post is my opinion only, and in no way should be taken as an official opinion of any Company, Department, or Municipality I represent... oh and this includes Pierce Mfg, as so their legal department has advised me; since they apparently also invented the right to control "Free Speech".

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    What engine does the Pelham Manor scope have in it?

    It's nice to see Seagrave get a order like this. I also saw on Facebook that they'll be building 2 new TDA's for Washington D.C. as well as 2 new tractors and refurbishing the trailers and aerials. It appears they're surviving. I wonder if they're still building FDNY pumpers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by laddertruckgoes View Post
    The 425 ISL is lighter weight then the Big Block options and is a pretty strong motor itself. Same as dealing with a Quint, the single screw aerialscope is a weight game... so saving a few hundred pounds here and there makes a big deal in the end.

    Woodbridge - Strictly opinion here, but I would venture to say that the 75' aerialscope remount, fully loaded, is close in weight but probably a little less then a 75' quint fully loaded with 400 - 500 gallons of water on and 6 men in the cab. Eitherway, there's only so much you can put on a 51k single rear chassis and no manufacturer today is going to knowingly overload a chassis.

    Back to the ISL motor - our new KoolAidQuint has the ISL 425 as well. In appleton last week, that thing flew around very nicely - sadly it was very comparable to our current rig and its 475 8V92 which we are near and dear with. (Smokes alot less too) Again though, I'm certain that 8V92 weights an amazing amount more then the ISL does. (CE11... Yardo... anyone know off the top of their head?)

    I'll crunch the #s a little later but a 8V92 isn't all that heavy. The ISL might edge it just a little. Detroit 8V92T 2395# Cummins ISL 425 1685# so not all that much different about 700ish #. Torque as follows 8V92T 1316 Ft lbs at 1600,the ISL is 1200@1300, T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 07-31-2010 at 11:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I'll crunch the #s a little later but a 8V92 isn't all that heavy. The ISL might edge it just a little. Detroit 8V92T 2395# Cummins ISL 425 1685# so not all that much different about 700ish #. Torque as follows 8V92T 1316 Ft lbs at 1600,the ISL is 1200@1300, T.C.
    We want to install a ( Bulldog 427 HP ) Re-mack into our old Scope with a 4000 EVS trans, or HT740 automatic do you think it will fit in the CF chassis, it would need a larger size cooling system, and maybe install a vent or screen in the grill ?
    Last edited by WoodbridgeFFII; 07-31-2010 at 03:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMastr28 View Post
    What engine does the Pelham Manor scope have in it?

    It's nice to see Seagrave get a order like this. I also saw on Facebook that they'll be building 2 new TDA's for Washington D.C. as well as 2 new tractors and refurbishing the trailers and aerials. It appears they're surviving. I wonder if they're still building FDNY pumpers...
    The Seagrave drawing for the Pelham rebuild called out a Cummins ISM 500HP motor. I'm pretty sure that Seagrave completed the last big FDNY pumper order. Who knows what they will go with on the next order but it will probably be Ferrara but only if the RM aerials that will be getting from Ferrara satisfy them to include warranty/service support. This is what killed Seagrave up there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    We want to install a ( Bulldog 427 HP ) into our old Scope with a 4000 EVS trans, do you think it will fit in the CF chassis ?
    If it's the old 673 c.i. block it should go. But if it's the E7 block (11.9 L. or 730 c.i.), that's questionable. The trans and rear(s) should take it. But I'd be very concerned about cooling it. The buff group on Staten Island had a CF that they had major cooling problems with. It was a 673, but I don't remember what version. Installing electric fans on the radiator helped, but I don't think it solved the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laddertruckgoes View Post
    The 425 ISL is lighter weight then the Big Block options and is a pretty strong motor itself. Same as dealing with a Quint, the single screw aerialscope is a weight game... so saving a few hundred pounds here and there makes a big deal in the end.

    Woodbridge - Strictly opinion here, but I would venture to say that the 75' aerialscope remount, fully loaded, is close in weight but probably a little less then a 75' quint fully loaded with 400 - 500 gallons of water on and 6 men in the cab. Eitherway, there's only so much you can put on a 51k single rear chassis and no manufacturer today is going to knowingly overload a chassis.

    Back to the ISL motor - our new KoolAidQuint has the ISL 425 as well. In appleton last week, that thing flew around very nicely - sadly it was very comparable to our current rig and its 475 8V92 which we are near and dear with. (Smokes alot less too) Again though, I'm certain that 8V92 weights an amazing amount more then the ISL does. (CE11... Yardo... anyone know off the top of their head?)
    Looks like Tim answered your question. He did just what I would have done, looked it up. The ISL should do fine in your flatland.

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    It is good to see Seagrave get a few orders out of DC, I am surprised though that DC just ordered 2 Pierce Heavy Rescues and 6 Pierce pumpers.

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    DC is having some of the same service/support issues that the FDNY has had. The "local" Seagrave dealer in the DC/Balto area jumped ship and is now with Smeal. The Seagrave dealer in the metro area is now the dealer in Hagerstown (western MD) again which is not exactly nearby. The DCFD wanted Seagrave to get a dealer with a service center in the Balto/DC area but it hasn't happened. This is where Pierce has them all beat in this area despite the fact that the local Pierce dealership had to be taken over by Oshkosh to keep it going until it can be sold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laddergoes View Post
    It is good to see Seagrave get a few orders out of DC, I am surprised though that DC just ordered 2 Pierce Heavy Rescues and 6 Pierce pumpers.
    Might be a 7th AND I believe they are ordering a heavy-duty foam truck from OTC.

    The Seagrave DCFD relationship is all but dead. It has been going downhill fast for the last year or two. Seagrave had a "lock" on that account and the latest CEO walked away from them. Same with FDNY. He doesn't want the five-year warranties and doesn't care what departments he loses.

    The ONLY reason they keep purchasing the Seagrave TDA's is because nobody else can provide A-frame jacks. That is priority #1 due to the short-jack scenarios (rear alleys) that they encounter everyday down in DC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    If it's the old 673 c.i. block it should go. But if it's the E7 block (11.9 L. or 730 c.i.), that's questionable. The trans and rear(s) should take it. But I'd be very concerned about cooling it. The buff group on Staten Island had a CF that they had major cooling problems with. It was a 673, but I don't remember what version. Installing electric fans on the radiator helped, but I don't think it solved the problem.
    If it's a late model 427 I think you're in trouble.Including wiring nightmares. Cooling I'm QUITE sure will be an issue. Don't think I would go there. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    If it's a late model 427 I think you're in trouble.Including wiring nightmares. Cooling I'm QUITE sure will be an issue. Don't think I would go there. T.C.
    Tim's got an additional point there. The 427 is an electronic engine. The 673 blocks are mechanical. Find one of them (later designations were E6-???). Even so, the more power, the more cooling needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    If it's the old 673 c.i. block it should go. But if it's the E7 block (11.9 L. or 730 c.i.), that's questionable. The trans and rear(s) should take it. But I'd be very concerned about cooling it. The buff group on Staten Island had a CF that they had major cooling problems with. It was a 673, but I don't remember what version. Installing electric fans on the radiator helped, but I don't think it solved the problem.
    I know that Mack Trucks, when they built fire chassis offered a 350 HP motor for the CF chassis. We may have to look into that motor. A few years back ITE fire installed a 427 HP in a refurbished Aerialscope for Oakhurst, N.J. !

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    I know that Mack Trucks, when they built fire chassis offered a 350 HP motor for the CF chassis. We may have to look into that motor. A few years back ITE fire installed a 427 HP in a refurbished Aerialscope for Oakhurst, N.J. !
    If anyone could do it, they're it. But I wonder what the cost was, and if there were any problems interfacing the electronics. And I wonder how they handled any cooling issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    I know that Mack Trucks, when they built fire chassis offered a 350 HP motor for the CF chassis. We may have to look into that motor. A few years back ITE fire installed a 427 HP in a refurbished Aerialscope for Oakhurst, N.J. !
    Didn't say you COULDN'T do it. But it won't be CHEAP nor EASY! Gets to a point of is the Expense worth the gain. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Didn't say you COULDN'T do it. But it won't be CHEAP nor EASY! Gets to a point of is the Expense worth the gain. T.C.
    Same as below!
    Last edited by WoodbridgeFFII; 08-03-2010 at 06:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Didn't say you COULDN'T do it. But it won't be CHEAP nor EASY! Gets to a point of is the Expense worth the gain. T.C.
    The refurb from ITE Fire was about $ 345,000 with a new Mack CF cab, motor, auto tranny, drive shaft, rear end, fire body, boom rebuild, paint, lights , etc. !
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