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  1. #41
    Forum Member PaladinKnight's Avatar
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    Michael232:

    I must state for the record my friend... you have class. I haven't seen too many guys that accept the plate of crow and eat it without issue.

    Just take care of your guys and you will be fine.

    The crew can make the officer.

    The officer does not make himself. He only has to decide how far in front of the troops in rides while under fire.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael232 View Post
    Thanks for the replies.
    You're welcome. I hope things work out for you and your crew.

  3. #43
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinKnight View Post
    The crew can make the officer.
    As I was told while going through the promotional process: "Remember that the lieutenant needs his firefighters far more than the firefighters need their lieutenant."
    Career Fire Captain
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    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  4. #44
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Is your last name Timex??? 'cause you took one helluva beating, and your still ticking.

    I've heard it plenty of times that those that get promoted to Officer and higher grades, that they lose the fact and history of where they came from. From your OP, you sounded like one of them, if not worse.

    I'll give you accolades on doing some inner soul searching, and more importantly, talking to your "crew/team" and asking those that are your equal for help and guidance. That says alot about one's self, and character.

    Don't be surprised if the change in you, doesn't change the mindset of your Brothers.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinKnight View Post
    Michael232:

    I must state for the record my friend... you have class. I haven't seen too many guys that accept the plate of crow and eat it without issue.

    Just take care of your guys and you will be fine.

    The crew can make the officer.

    The officer does not make himself. He only has to decide how far in front of the troops in rides while under fire.
    This pretty much says it all.

    Michael - What is the purpose of the 6 AM wake up tones?

  6. #46
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    As long as you have the ability to take criticism, self evaluate, admit your mistakes, and learn from them, there may be hope for you yet. I always look at it this way (I am not a fire officer, but hold a similar position in my job), you are there to work for your crew, not the other way around. It is your job to ensure your crew has the tools, training, and support they need to get the job done.

  7. #47
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    By god sir, that's impressive. You got the hell beat out of you and you came back.

    I'm glad you read the responses, and it appears you took them into consideration, and appears as though you are going to change things and apologize. In my eyes, being able to take constructive criticism (or the mild beating you got here), realizing your flaws, and working to correct them, makes a good officer.

    Hope things work out better for you and your crew. Stay safe.

  8. #48
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Well..........

    After about 37 posts, I'd framed a reply.......... Never mind now. Mike, Good Luck to you. Not a lot of Folks that can accept advice like that and act on it.....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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  9. #49
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    - What is the purpose of the 6 AM wake up tones?
    To wake up before shift change. Ours are at 7:15, shift change at 8am. It's like an alarm clock that comes in handy especially if you've had 5 or more runs after midnight. You know, wake up, toilet, brush teeth, break down bedding, go downstairs and have a cup of rotgut coffee, etc.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by len1582 View Post
    To wake up before shift change. Ours are at 7:15, shift change at 8am. It's like an alarm clock that comes in handy especially if you've had 5 or more runs after midnight. You know, wake up, toilet, brush teeth, break down bedding, go downstairs and have a cup of rotgut coffee, etc.
    Copy. Thank you. We just set our alarm clock. If for some reason someone hasn't got up by 10 till we wake them.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    Copy. Thank you. We just set our alarm clock. If for some reason someone hasn't got up by 10 till we wake them.
    Not got up by 10? Someone is going to get fired from their second job!
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Not got up by 10? Someone is going to get fired from their second job!
    10 till (6:50)

  13. #53
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    Best of luck Mike. The best officers are the ones who can take critizism and use it to better themselfs. Kudos bro
    Matt G.
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  14. #54
    MembersZone Subscriber fieldseng2's Avatar
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    What I've learned the most from officers I've been around..... How NOT to act, and how NOT to treat the people under your command.

    But I must say that is pretty stand up of you to come back on here and say you were wrong, and what you plan to do to rectify it. That is the making of a good officer.

    Treat the people under your command with respect, accept input from them, praise them when they do a good job, don't berate or humiliate them when their actions are less than acceptable....rather explain what they did wrong and explain what you expect in the future, when there is work to be done (in the firehouse or on the scene) get your hands dirty too, be firm and confident when you make a decision....you get the idea....LEAD in this fashion and your crew will follow you in the depths of he!! w/a water can...LEAD in this fashion and you will very rarely will have to give an order....LEAD in this fashion and they will make you look like the best officer in the whole department, they will defend you whenever an outsider crticizes you...

    Isnt that what every officer wants?

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael232 View Post
    A quick intro about me: I joined a major metropolitan fire department when I was 30. After 6 years, I promoted to Lieutenant. A long time friend and ex-Deputy Fire Chief met up with me after I promoted to Lieutenant and wanted to share some of his advice he gathered throughout the years. To make a long, long story short...I learned so much through our conversation and took it to my team at the firehouse. I've since moved on to a different station and my new team seems to be slightly upset about the way I "run" things.

    Do you think this is too much to ask for out of my team?
    Wait a minute... You've been in a major CAREER department for 6 YEARS and promoted to Lieutenant and you're just learning this after talking to two chiefs??

    Except for showing up 1 1/2 hours early and demanding 45 second response times I learned most of that after less than 6 months on a volunteer fire department. wow.

  16. #56
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael232 View Post
    A quick intro about me: I joined a major metropolitan fire department when I was 30. After 6 years, I promoted to Lieutenant. A long time friend and ex-Deputy Fire Chief met up with me after I promoted to Lieutenant and wanted to share some of his advice he gathered throughout the years. To make a long, long story short...I learned so much through our conversation and took it to my team at the firehouse. I've since moved on to a different station and my new team seems to be slightly upset about the way I "run" things.

    Do you think this is too much to ask for out of my team?

    1. I expect my team to arrive at the Firehouse no later than 0530 (we run "traditional" 0700-0700 shifts). I, personally, believe it takes at least an hour and a half to do a THOROUGH and COMPLETE check of EVERY SINGLE piece of equipment on our engine. When my team and I go in service at 0700, I expect to be able to respond to ANY call with COMPLETE assurance that our engine is 100% ready to rock-and-roll. There are a couple of firefighters that say it's "unreasonable" and "crazy" to show up at 0530.

    2. Our station answers a lot of Automatic Alarms. I expect my team to gear up COMPLETELY (bunkers, SCBA, Irons, thermal cams, etc) on EVERY AFA call. I've seen other companies who just respond in regular station wear. I think it's 100% unacceptable. There have been times where crews respond to a "routine" AFA and find a working fire...only to gear up on-scene. Jesus Christ...this is our JOB to RESPOND and be PREPARED to rock-and-roll. That "routine" AFA could be THE time. It could be THAT fire where that little kid is trapped. It's our job to respond and be prepared to act.

    3. I've noticed some crews that will take 1-2 minutes to turn-out on one of those "routine" MVAs or EMS runs. I expect my team to be (from the second of the tones) ON THE ROAD in 45 seconds day or night. Some say it's crazy to be in such a hurry. I've heard..."Mike, it's just a medical emergency. Why do you want us to run to the engine?". Again, it's our JOB and DUTY to respond in a FAST manner. Just because Locution says "Fall" or "Headache" doesn't mean it's not serious. I've seen "Gun Shot Wounds" turn into nosebleeds and "Medical Emergencies" turn into to confirmed chokings.

    4. I expect my team to buckle up. Every ride. Every time.

    5. I expect ALL our EMS bags to go in on EVERY EMS call. I expect our airway kit, AED, and general EMS bag to go in on EVERY call.

    6. Anytime we have an overtime firefighter or new rookie, I expect to sit down with them and have the infamous "BST" (as my team calls it). It's the Big Safety Talk. I explain to them that safety is EVERYONE'S responsibility. I expect ANY team member to speak up if they think something is dangerous. I explain that there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with speaking up when you think something is dangerous. Whether it's a rook telling me that he thinks what I'm doing is dangerous...or me telling a driver that he's driving dangerously. There is NO barrier when it comes to safety.



    Is that really THAT much to ask for? I'm not laid back. I don't mess around. I've got a job to do with 100% of my effort! I've had people get upset with what I expect and even one firefighter leave the house for a reassignment because he didn't like my "rules".




    Son, let me lay this on you.
    I was on the job for 40 years plus.
    I relieved as my relief man wanted to be.

    Normally when I was an firefighter and officer, I was in the fire house about 6 AM. Why? Because that is when my relief man wasted to be relieved.

    When I rode the Battalion Car, I was at the Battatlion Office no later than 5:45 AM to sit down with the off going chief and go over the past days work. I was also relieved the next morning by this same chief or another, on a different shirt and we went over my past day.

    I never ordered any of my members to be in 1 to 1-1/2 hours prior to normal shift change and in no way would I have ordered anyone to report for duty in the fire house at 5:30 AM. or 0530 which ever you know the best!

    You are a dictator my friend and I am surprised someone hasn't preferred charges on you!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  17. #57
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    ...............
    Last edited by shmarleybarlow; 11-05-2010 at 02:32 PM.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BW21 View Post
    From one Lt to another,

    I'd chill the f*** out. I think you lack something called Brotherhood.

    Instead of influencing the further loss of brotherhood in the fire service start building it back up with your crew.
    quote......

  19. #59
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael232 View Post
    A quick intro about me: I joined a major metropolitan fire department when I was 30. After 6 years, I promoted to Lieutenant. A long time friend and ex-Deputy Fire Chief met up with me after I promoted to Lieutenant and wanted to share some of his advice he gathered throughout the years. To make a long, long story short...I learned so much through our conversation and took it to my team at the firehouse. I've since moved on to a different station and my new team seems to be slightly upset about the way I "run" things.

    Do you think this is too much to ask for out of my team?

    1. I expect my team to arrive at the Firehouse no later than 0530 (we run "traditional" 0700-0700 shifts). I, personally, believe it takes at least an hour and a half to do a THOROUGH and COMPLETE check of EVERY SINGLE piece of equipment on our engine. When my team and I go in service at 0700, I expect to be able to respond to ANY call with COMPLETE assurance that our engine is 100% ready to rock-and-roll. There are a couple of firefighters that say it's "unreasonable" and "crazy" to show up at 0530.

    Not a snowball's chance in Hell am I showing up an hour and a half before my shift starts and frankly good luck if you try to push the issue. I will show up roughly a half hour before my shift starts and I most often do that as a favor for the guy going off duty because he has to get home for his kids.

    If it takes an hour and a half for a crew to check over a rig I would first of all question their familiarization with the rig and their skills with the equipment they are checking.

    It is absolutely unreasonable and crazy to expect people to show up to work 90 minutes early and go to work unpaid for those 90 minutes. You can choose to start whenever you want. I am sure the off going LT loves going home that early. Unless the guy I relieve is coming in for me at 0530 tomorrow morning it simply isn't going to happen.


    2. Our station answers a lot of Automatic Alarms. I expect my team to gear up COMPLETELY (bunkers, SCBA, Irons, thermal cams, etc) on EVERY AFA call. I've seen other companies who just respond in regular station wear. I think it's 100% unacceptable. There have been times where crews respond to a "routine" AFA and find a working fire...only to gear up on-scene. Jesus Christ...this is our JOB to RESPOND and be PREPARED to rock-and-roll. That "routine" AFA could be THE time. It could be THAT fire where that little kid is trapped. It's our job to respond and be prepared to act.

    Perfectly logical. Full PPE and SCBA on the back, facepiece in the ready position but not donned. When the rig I respond on gets an automatic alarm I carry my pickhead axe, 6 foot FDNY roof hook, and a 2 1/2 gallon water extinguisher, my officer carries the irons, tick and search rope. We are ready to go to work in the event we find something.

    3. I've noticed some crews that will take 1-2 minutes to turn-out on one of those "routine" MVAs or EMS runs. I expect my team to be (from the second of the tones) ON THE ROAD in 45 seconds day or night. Some say it's crazy to be in such a hurry. I've heard..."Mike, it's just a medical emergency. Why do you want us to run to the engine?". Again, it's our JOB and DUTY to respond in a FAST manner. Just because Locution says "Fall" or "Headache" doesn't mean it's not serious. I've seen "Gun Shot Wounds" turn into nosebleeds and "Medical Emergencies" turn into to confirmed chokings.

    45 seconds in the middle of the night seems a little unrealistic to me. One minute seems more realistic to me.

    4. I expect my team to buckle up. Every ride. Every time.

    Agreed. IF, you allow them to pack up before you roll or give them time to pack up once on scene.

    5. I expect ALL our EMS bags to go in on EVERY EMS call. I expect our airway kit, AED, and general EMS bag to go in on EVERY call.

    If you are lone dogging it, or the Barf Box is far out, then of course. Otherwise all it is is additional clutter.

    6. Anytime we have an overtime firefighter or new rookie, I expect to sit down with them and have the infamous "BST" (as my team calls it). It's the Big Safety Talk. I explain to them that safety is EVERYONE'S responsibility. I expect ANY team member to speak up if they think something is dangerous. I explain that there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with speaking up when you think something is dangerous. Whether it's a rook telling me that he thinks what I'm doing is dangerous...or me telling a driver that he's driving dangerously. There is NO barrier when it comes to safety.

    It sounds like you want to establish policy that goes above and beyond that of the fire department. Having that talk with a 10 year veteran on overtime versus a brand new rookie may earn you the reutation of a micromanager, not a good leader.


    Is that really THAT much to ask for? I'm not laid back. I don't mess around. I've got a job to do with 100% of my effort! I've had people get upset with what I expect and even one firefighter leave the house for a reassignment because he didn't like my "rules".

    I am surprised honestly that someone hasn't brought you up on charges for demanding they be in by 0530. What would you do if a member of your crew looked at you and said "NO WAY am I coming in 90 minutes early simply because you say you want me to."

    You sound like a micromanaging, dictatorial, perfectionist. I am very much into my job, I check my rig over thoroughly, I maintain the tools on the rig, I am involved in the apparatus and Health and Safety Committees, I enjoy training and I am always looking for more opportunities to learn. My refusing to come in ridiculously early has nothing to do with my dedication to the job it has to do with what is right and your demands are not right.
    A long time ago I heard a firefighter tell a story of what he said to his new officer when he made unrealistic demands on his crew and followed it up with the "There is no I in team speech." He looked across the table and said "You are right sir, there is no I in team, but there is a U in Nut."

    My advice lighten up a bit. Don't expect people to be as consumed by the job as you are. AND... if you seriously believe it takes an hour and a half to check out a rig in the morning then schedule the time to do it during regular working hours.

    Good luck.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  20. #60
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Guys read the f*ckin thread....it was resolved already.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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