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  1. #61
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Nice follow up to your first post. I still see some issues, but improvement if you follow through.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michael232 View Post
    Don't get me wrong...I have been reading the responses so far. I do appreciate the constructive advice I've gotten from here.

    I see that for the most part, people agree with some of the expectations I layed out except for the turnout-times and reporting times.

    After thinking through the turnout expectations and talking with some fellow LTs, I've realized that 45 seconds in unreasonable. Our station is not large, nor is it a 2-story...however, even with that, 45 seconds is pushing it. I will say this, however, our station has a different mindset on turnout times for boxes vs EMS calls.

    So does almost everywhere. Let's face it, it may not be right but the adrenaline surges more for a fire than an EMS call.

    About the reporting times, I've also talked with the guys and apologized about setting an unreasonable time to show up. Our Locution dispatch system automatically plays the tones at 0600 as an alarm to wake up. Most of the guys show up at 0600 anyways to chat with the previous crew or have a cup of coffee together.

    And that is cool IF that is what your guys want to do.

    Addressing the question of why it takes an hour and a half (for me, at least) to check the engine: I personally believe in checking equipment like our lives depend on it (because it does). It sounds depressing (I know)...but I pretty much check every piece of equipment out 100% and make sure it's in the correct place. As it is...our station runs a lot of EMS and by the end of the day, it's uncommon for the bag to be messy from things being thrown in there. It takes me at least half an hour just to organize the EMS bag and make sure that all the supplies are stocked and in the right position. We are a paramedic engine so there is a little bit more equipment then say...in a BLS bag.

    Okay, this is still an issue for me. I think you are a micromanager that doesn't trust your guys. You don't need to check everything on the rig, if you do then why have your crew do it? I would take you following behind me and checking everything as an insult because clearly you don't trust me. My previous Captain trusted my knowledge of the rig and its equipment so thoroughly that he would ask me when I came back from vacation what my replacement or the other crews had lost or put back wrong and believe it or not I would invariably find 2 or 3 things out of place. THAT is how you build trust, byt trusting your troops, not micromanaging them.

    I thoroughly check the rig on the first day of the cycle. I check all the saws, power equipment, gas meter, hose beds and so forth. If I talk with the off going crew over the rest of the cycle and they didn't use anything I am not going to run every piece of power equipment every day. My 2nd and 3rd days checks, also completed on day 1, are the med bags, the O2 kits, the defib, the suction, my SCBA, spare cylinders and all the compartments to see if everything is in place and/or it needs service.


    From the responses I've got here, I think portrayed myself as a d***. If so, please accept my sincere apologies. I do realize that some of my expectations were indeed, unreasonable. In addition, taking on the suggestion of one post, I'm planning on buying dinner for OUR (not "my") crew.

    Make sure you buy ice cream or pie or both to go with that dinner.

    On a final note, after talking with some other Officers and reading what Deputy Chief Gonzo put, I'm going to do some of the "lowly" jobs around the house. I realize that being an officer is not a pass to not to any work. Before now, it was my expectation that a FF would carry our ALS EMS bag or AED. I'm helping to carry the EMS equipment now to show my crew that I'm still with them.

    That has never been a question with my boss, the house Captain. If we are washing trucks he is there helping, if we are washing hose, reloading hose, taking care of equipment he is right there with us. To be sure when he needs us to step up for him we are far more willing because he is still one of us when there is dirty work to do.

    I made a mistake when I moved to this new house by laying out the expectations the way I did. I made a mistake. Luckily for me, however, I do work with a great, great group of guys that are still willing to give me a shot.

    Well, you are darn lucky there. Don't screw it up again because they won't be so forgiving the second time around.

    Thanks for the replies.
    Good luck and I seriously hope you did take what people said to heart. If you didn't your career is going to be long and very painful emotionally.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...


  2. #62
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Nice follow up to your first post. I still see some issues, but improvement if you follow through.




    Good luck and I seriously hope you did take what people said to heart. If you didn't your career is going to be long and very painful emotionally.
    BTW Fyred my comment wasnt towards you...
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  3. #63
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    BTW Fyred my comment wasnt towards you...
    We're good Brother
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  4. #64
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    unfortunately the "Niedermier" syndrome is common in 5 year wonders. He'll either "get it" the easy way, or his troops will "get it" for him.

    I worked for a capt once who made up for his incompetence on the street by showing some of those very same behaviors in the fire house.

  5. #65
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffp20 View Post
    unfortunately the "Niedermier" syndrome is common in 5 year wonders. He'll either "get it" the easy way, or his troops will "get it" for him.

    I worked for a capt once who made up for his incompetence on the street by showing some of those very same behaviors in the fire house.

    Damn straight biscuit!

    I have experienced that on both the career and volly side of this business.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  6. #66
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    Calm down Captain America.

  7. #67
    MembersZone Subscriber ffbam24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRFRD_7 View Post
    Calm down Captain America.
    Nice first post to resurrect a 2 month old thread.

  8. #68
    Forum Member FiremanLyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    Nice first post to resurrect a 2 month old thread.
    Quick boys, get the bat, this horse twitched, just a little more to ensure it has sufficiently been beat to death.
    ~Drew
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  9. #69
    MembersZone Subscriber ffbam24's Avatar
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    Muahahahaha! Liiiiiive!

    Funny too. I don't recall what the thread was about.

  10. #70
    Forum Member dfwfirefighter's Avatar
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    I've enjoyed reading the posts in this thread. Although most of how I handle business has already been said in many of these posts, I've made a short list, in no particular order, of how to be a productive member of your department:

    1. Know and do your job.

    2. Arrive at work on time.

    3. Inspect and maintain your equipment as though your life depends on it - because it does.

    4. Respect and take care of each other.

    5. If someone in your company/station/crew needs help (i.e. a nudge in the right direction, a "pep talk", and/or etc.), take him/her under your wing and help them. How they perform is a direct reflection of your crew or station's personnel.

    6. Everyone (on some level) wants to be led by capable leadership. If you are an officer, LEAD. Your people are expecting you to!

    7. No one should work alone. If the driver is washing his/her apparatus, everyone should be out there helping. This goes for cleaning the station, inspecting fire hydrants, and etc. Put down the iphone and build relationships with those you work with.

    8. Eat meals together (regardless of whether you rotate cooking or bring your own food).

    9. Safety is non-negotiable. (Side-note to officers - It is hard "sell" to promote the "do as I say; not as I do" mentality while expecting compliance with your FFs. Wear your PPE as you'd expect your people to).

    10. Train every shift on something. This could be as simple as reviewing an incident during a meal (see #8), going out to the fire academy training tower, or setting the aerial in a parking lot somewhere on the weekends.

    11. As an add-on on to item #1: Know not only your job, but also the job below you and the one above you, i.e. a company officer should be able to operate a pump and/or aerial device AND ride up as the BC. It is hard to mentor your folks if you do not know how to do your job (and theirs).
    DFW



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  11. #71
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael232 View Post
    A quick intro about me: I joined a major metropolitan fire department when I was 30. After 6 years, I promoted to Lieutenant. A long time friend and ex-Deputy Fire Chief met up with me after I promoted to Lieutenant and wanted to share some of his advice he gathered throughout the years. To make a long, long story short...I learned so much through our conversation and took it to my team at the firehouse. I've since moved on to a different station and my new team seems to be slightly upset about the way I "run" things.

    Do you think this is too much to ask for out of my team?

    1. I expect my team to arrive at the Firehouse no later than 0530 (we run "traditional" 0700-0700 shifts). I, personally, believe it takes at least an hour and a half to do a THOROUGH and COMPLETE check of EVERY SINGLE piece of equipment on our engine. When my team and I go in service at 0700, I expect to be able to respond to ANY call with COMPLETE assurance that our engine is 100% ready to rock-and-roll. There are a couple of firefighters that say it's "unreasonable" and "crazy" to show up at 0530.

    I try to make it to the station between 0615 and 0630... any later and I feel bad for being late. Not only do I not want anyone to get the shaft by getting stuck on a late run but I like getting in, throwing my gear on the rig and letting someone take off if they need to go to another job and sitting down with the offgoing crew for breakfast. Once dispatch comes over the air and says "0700 hours", we get up and go check out the rigs. Being there at 0530 seems pretty ridiculous to me too. And like others said, if the rig isn't ready to roll regardless of whether you check it or not, there's a problem. Now everyone mumbles and grumbles about how "(insert letter or number here) shift never does their station duties or checks their trucks out" but that truck should be good to go and thats why we check it out right at 0700.

    2. Our station answers a lot of Automatic Alarms. I expect my team to gear up COMPLETELY (bunkers, SCBA, Irons, thermal cams, etc) on EVERY AFA call. I've seen other companies who just respond in regular station wear. I think it's 100% unacceptable. There have been times where crews respond to a "routine" AFA and find a working fire...only to gear up on-scene. Jesus Christ...this is our JOB to RESPOND and be PREPARED to rock-and-roll. That "routine" AFA could be THE time. It could be THAT fire where that little kid is trapped. It's our job to respond and be prepared to act.

    Not too much to ask at all. At our vollie house we have be struggling with convincing people its a good idea to get off the truck COMBAT READY

    3. I've noticed some crews that will take 1-2 minutes to turn-out on one of those "routine" MVAs or EMS runs. I expect my team to be (from the second of the tones) ON THE ROAD in 45 seconds day or night. Some say it's crazy to be in such a hurry. I've heard..."Mike, it's just a medical emergency. Why do you want us to run to the engine?". Again, it's our JOB and DUTY to respond in a FAST manner. Just because Locution says "Fall" or "Headache" doesn't mean it's not serious. I've seen "Gun Shot Wounds" turn into nosebleeds and "Medical Emergencies" turn into to confirmed chokings.

    I'm all for quick turnouts but like others have said, I don't know how your station is laid out. Our new station at the vollie house is enormous and they put the living quarters at the furthest possible point from the staffed rigs, so if you're in your bedroom, it could literally take you 30-40 seconds just to get to the truck.

    4. I expect my team to buckle up. Every ride. Every time.

    Should go without saying

    5. I expect ALL our EMS bags to go in on EVERY EMS call. I expect our airway kit, AED, and general EMS bag to go in on EVERY call.

    Yes and no. We always take in our airway bag and monitor. If it comes out as an ALS call such as an unconscious we will grab the drug box and suction.

    6. Anytime we have an overtime firefighter or new rookie, I expect to sit down with them and have the infamous "BST" (as my team calls it). It's the Big Safety Talk. I explain to them that safety is EVERYONE'S responsibility. I expect ANY team member to speak up if they think something is dangerous. I explain that there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with speaking up when you think something is dangerous. Whether it's a rook telling me that he thinks what I'm doing is dangerous...or me telling a driver that he's driving dangerously. There is NO barrier when it comes to safety.

    I don't think it needs to be a sit down talk, but just mention it to the guys in the morning who are new there. I know some of our salty guys would laugh right in your face and tell you to shut the f*Ck up. We have a Lt. who sounds somewhat similar to you and as soon as he walks in the door, one of our senior members tells him right away to shut his mouth. Everyday, like clockwork.

    Is that really THAT much to ask for? I'm not laid back. I don't mess around. I've got a job to do with 100% of my effort! I've had people get upset with what I expect and even one firefighter leave the house for a reassignment because he didn't like my "rules".

    Didn't realize this was an old thread...... oh well
    Last edited by backsteprescue; 01-17-2011 at 10:57 AM.
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  12. #72
    Forum Member truckedup133's Avatar
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    sorry to start this up, but curiousity got me. he is talkin about litterally running to the truck on call, of any nature. I feel just the opposite. our crew and our lt. like to take our time to reach the truck. on our way we hear the address, the call, the locational grid numbers and who we are working with. we also hear the fireground radio channel. ill tell you there is nothing more annoying than getting a new guy full of **** and vinegar who asks us 15 or 16 times a day what radio channe we are on. i suppose an outside might think we dont care or are lacadaisical but if it is an emergency for a firefighter too, then who else do you call? we meet every run, fire, mva or diff. breathing by walking quickly, being deliberate and staying calm. it would seem this lt. has lost his calm within 45 seconds of the bell dropping.

  13. #73
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truckedup133 View Post
    sorry to start this up, but curiousity got me. he is talkin about litterally running to the truck on call, of any nature. I feel just the opposite. our crew and our lt. like to take our time to reach the truck. on our way we hear the address, the call, the locational grid numbers and who we are working with. we also hear the fireground radio channel. ill tell you there is nothing more annoying than getting a new guy full of **** and vinegar who asks us 15 or 16 times a day what radio channe we are on. i suppose an outside might think we dont care or are lacadaisical but if it is an emergency for a firefighter too, then who else do you call? we meet every run, fire, mva or diff. breathing by walking quickly, being deliberate and staying calm. it would seem this lt. has lost his calm within 45 seconds of the bell dropping.
    Just a thought. If you were to use capital letters, spaces, proper spelling, etc, your response may be easier to understand.

    I think that getting to the rig quickly is an issue of company pride. And I completely disagree with you as far as taking your time jsut so you can listen to the call. If you know your piece has been dispatched you can always find out in the truck whether from the MDT or just checking on the air and asking dispatch to repeat themselves.

    God knows dispatchers need to be kept on their toes from time to time. Hell half the time our dispatchers (PD/FD) will just turn down the fire frequencies on their console and ignore us.
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  14. #74
    Forum Member truckedup133's Avatar
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    Please forgive my indifference with grammatical errors. I have consistently looked at this board, and most forums online, as being a safe haven from my elementary teachers. I was wrong and I assure you; No longer will you slave with confusion over my postings.
    Now, back to the topic at hand. Please do not feel like I am bickering, as I am curious to how fire companies operate in different areas. I work at an all career urban department. So I do suppose that we do not have to mess with a PD/FD dispatch that treats the FD with indifference. But, that being said, keep this in mind: Would you rather have
    1)3 Engines, 2 Ladders, 1 Squad , 1 Ambulance and 1 Chief all on the truck in 45 seconds but immediately hitting in to control asking for the pertinent information regarding the run...

    Or

    2)3 Engines, 2 Ladders, 1 Squad , 1 Ambulance and 1 Chief all on the truck in 1 minute and 10 seconds. But in this time, instead of running and hurrying to the apparatus, they walked briskly and LISTENED so as to be prepared as they rolled out? Now in each respective unit, instead of re-hashing information that was already dispatched, you have a company of men re-hashing assignments and listening to what the company officer needs upon arrival.

    Just food for thought and heres to a decent debate. Something that has been sorely lacking in recent weeks among this board.

    Rebuttal?

  15. #75
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    We're expected to be on the road within 45-60 seconds of dispatch during the day, 1 minute 30 seconds at night. Like RFD said, all of our info is on the MDT screen, so we'll listen to the dispatch, but we don't have to stay glued to the overhead speakers.
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  16. #76
    Forum Member truckedup133's Avatar
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    Fair Enough. Yeah, maybe I made it sound as though we don't move until the radio has quieted. No, in reality, we make our way towards the trucks, but listening and not running like probies. That's all I was trying to convey. Hey maybe some houses literally run to the truck and thats cool if that is what you do. Some of our newer members do that and nobody thinks less of them, minus some ribbing. So NEW question. If you will run to the truck...will you run on the fire scene? Or any scene for that matter?


    --Also did not mention... I see your point with the MDT but surely your officer has better things to be thinking of than relaying to you what he sees on his computer screen, right?
    Last edited by truckedup133; 01-18-2011 at 12:03 AM.

  17. #77
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truckedup133 View Post
    --Also did not mention... I see your point with the MDT but surely your officer has better things to be thinking of than relaying to you what he sees on his computer screen, right?
    Since I am the officer, I feel comfortable saying that glancing at the screen doesn't take away from my decision making capabilities or thought process. This is not an exaggeration of a typical response...
    • Call goes out. People listen to the speaker enroute to the rig and getting dressed.
    • Board the rig, press the "enroute" button on the MDT. Listen to the 60-Series Detroit fire up and watch the driver exit the bay.
    • From the back of rig: "What do we have, loo?"
    • Me: "Comments say it's a car on fire in front of the Oak Bridge apartments."
    • Fireman: "Gotcha"
    • Me: Press the "Map/GIS" button on the MDT, which pulls up a GIS map of the 3-block area surrounding where the incident it located. Then enjoy the rest of my lights and sirens trip to the vehicle fire.

    In our department, we're blessed with technology. We get it over the speaker, the MDT, and an alpha-pager for each specific apparatus.

    Heck, even at the volly house, we get it over the speaker, have it recorded for playback on the Minitor, get the address and call type on our cell phones, and the cell phone that's assigned to the engine.

    I'm not saying that we ought to dismiss the loudspeaker overall, nor am I advocating running to the rig like a rookie, but in our situation, we have alternative means of gathering the info if we don't catch it initially.
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  18. #78
    Forum Member truckedup133's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    In our department, we're blessed with technology. We get it over the speaker, the MDT, and an alpha-pager for each specific apparatus.

    Heck, even at the volly house, we get it over the speaker, have it recorded for playback on the Minitor, get the address and call type on our cell phones, and the cell phone that's assigned to the engine.
    Hey its that simple...and yes you have no excuse to not know what the call is for! Maybe its just my crew. I suppose im the youngest of the group, but still it remains a very senior crew. I know what kind of looks I used to get when I asked the very questions you have given as example. LOL. Quite funny the minute differences. See BOX....this is why I have always loved this forum. Now if we can get the the drama and the bull**** of the main threads cut back a little bit, it might be bearable again.

  19. #79
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    I'd like an update from Michael to see how he and his crew are getting along since he changed his demeanor.
    IAFF

  20. #80
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I'd like an update from Michael to see how he and his crew are getting along since he changed his demeanor.
    They fragged him in the basement of an abandoned tenement.

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