1. #26
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Additionally, based on the context of your statement, I'm assuming that we are talking about a career department with volunteers and not a volunteer department with some paid staffing.

    Could be either way.
    No, not for the sake of this discussion. There IS a difference between the two.


    I'm not discussing "support" positions for volunteering. I'm discussing "full-service firefighters" which is what you will find in a career fire department.


    Support and exterior firefighting positions free up the3 full-service firefighters for interior work, in a worse case scenario. Certainly down the line, I would expect some of the volunteers to be qualified as interior firefighters, but in the short-term, the new volunteers could be trained to support interior operations while receiving further training.

    Given the fact that a city cannot support the current staff of full-time firefighters and has to make cuts, which is a better scenario - 6 full-timers on their own or 6 full-timers with 8 or 9 exterior personnel (some of them working towards interior) and drivers supporting them?
    I'd have to see who the "8 or 9 exterior personnel" are.

    I am opposed to a "volunteer or reserve program" in my department, not because I'm anti-volunteer, but because we simply don't need it. We are a small city career department with limited on-duty staffing. We can handle about 90-95% of our calls with our on-duty staffing. When we have a larger scale incident, we callback our off-duty personnel which is essentially the same thing as having a "reserve/on-call" roster. It may cost a little more, but is much better operationally since there won't be the "problems" that can occur with someone who doesn't work regularly.

    You are better off than some. There are small career departments that may be facing being reduced to a handful, if that, per shift, without the outside volunteer resources to call. These are the departments that would probably benefit most from the development of a volunteer call or reserve force.
    Maybe they could, but I think you may find that finding sufficient personnel to volunteer to be a problem.

  2. #27
    Forum Member
    L-Webb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    No, not for the sake of this discussion. There IS a difference between the two.



    I'd have to see who the "8 or 9 exterior personnel" are.



    Maybe they could, but I think you may find that finding sufficient personnel to volunteer to be a problem.
    For some departments having support personnel makes all the difference in the world.

    It looks like this dept in MO might need to find some good volunteers to make up the staffing gap.
    Bring enough hose.

  3. #28
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,593

    Default

    No, not for the sake of this discussion. There IS a difference between the two.

    It sounds like this department would still be run and managed by the career staff. Would it be a bad thing if the volunteer staff, over time, took over the management of the department, and the career staff? Probably not. Certainly depending on the community, that shift could take place.

    We are just about the last combo department in our area to be run by a volunteer chief, and it still works fairly well. We have a Deputy Chief who manages the day-to-day operation, but the Chief still sets policy, develops goals and objectives, and handles major disciplinary issues, including issues with the career staff.

    Maybe they could, but I think you may find that finding sufficient personnel to volunteer to be a problem.

    Maybe.

    Maybe not.

    Develop a well-coordinated recruiting program Give them a reasonable a flexible training plan. Implement a set of incentives. Make them feel like a part of the department. Let the volunteers know that once the program matures there will be leadership positions available to them within the department. And make it clear to the career staff that this is now the direction the department is taking and being on-board is not an option.

    Assuming the demographics exist to provide a manpower pool, I'm willing to be it would work in most communities.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-08-2010 at 04:50 PM.

  4. #29
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Sounds like what is happening here, where as more career members are hired, the roles of the volunteers are diminished, and because of that, fewer of them volunteer.

    There are several combo departments here where the career staff is openly rude, and in a couple of cases hostile, to their volunteer force, and management does nothing about it. In at least one case, the Chief openly states that he wants to get rid of all his volunteers even though he currently has only 5 men a shift covering almost 2 square miles from 8 stations.

    Bottom line, I still contend that if a volunteer is compensated, to a limited extent, given the same training opportunities as the career staff, respected, and utilized as a first-line member of the team, a combo department can flourish and retain a solid group of volunteers.
    Or maybe modern life, with active children and two working parents doesn't leave a lot of time for volunteering. But Im sure its only the big bad paid guy, but you'd know since deep in the bayou Louisiana represents America.

    Even if the career guys are hostile, often its the fault of the top level administration that is volunteer and/or pro-volunteer and may cut the vollies too much slack or treat the paid guys like crap. You're right though, its always the evil paid guys.

    For most small and medium sized communities a strong call force is no longer an option. The funds simply do not exist to operate a department without such a force.
    what?!?

  5. #30
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    I have said this once and I will say it again. I am a proponent of volunteering, as I am both a career and volunteer firefighter. However, cutting paid positions and adding volunteers to make up the difference is a step in the wrong direction. Size of response area and call volume do no matter.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  6. #31
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    I have said this once and I will say it again. I am a proponent of volunteering, as I am both a career and volunteer firefighter. However, cutting paid positions and adding volunteers to make up the difference is a step in the wrong direction. Size of response area and call volume do no matter.
    Then I take you, since you beleive that laying off paid staff and replacing them with volunteers is "going in the wrong direction" that paid staffing is somehow superior to volunteer staffing?

    Sorry, i don't agree. But you are entitled to your opinion.

  7. #32
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,593

    Default

    Or maybe modern life, with active children and two working parents doesn't leave a lot of time for volunteering. But Im sure its only the big bad paid guy, but you'd know since deep in the bayou Louisiana represents America.

    Then please tell me why there are well staffed volunteer fire departments throughout the country.

    The fact is in most communities, there are volunteers available, but the fire service isn't very good at recruiting or retaining them.

    We refuse to utilize incentive packages. We refuse to take college-level marketing courses to learn how to "sell" ourselves. We refuse to develop comprehensive recruiting programs rather than just throw up a few posters around town. We often refuse to offer flexible training programs rather than the once-a-week-Tuesday-night-training. We fail to tie into cooperative agreements with local child care centers.

    The fact is people still want to volunteer with the fire department, for any number of reasons (See Maslov). We just aren't very good at drawing them in and keeping them here.

    My last department in VT was pretty good at drawing people in and keeping them trained and active. My department here is also pretty good at doing that. We must have been and are just plain lucky.

  8. #33
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    Then please tell me why there are well staffed volunteer fire departments throughout the country.
    There are some well staffed VFDs, the vast majority of them are not.

    The fact is in most communities, there are volunteers available, but the fire service isn't very good at recruiting or retaining them.
    It's like getting minorities to sign up for career FD entrance exams... if they don't want to volunteer, you can't force them.

    We refuse to utilize incentive packages. We refuse to take college-level marketing courses to learn how to "sell" ourselves.
    Some VFD's can barely afford to put fuel in the rigs or maintain them and buy adequate gear for their personnel... how do you expect them to send people to college, and in some rural areas, the nearest college could be 100+ miles away... and the courses may only be offered once or twice a year.

    We refuse to develop comprehensive recruiting programs rather than just throw up a few posters around town. We often refuse to offer flexible training programs rather than the once-a-week-Tuesday-night-training. We fail to tie into cooperative agreements with local child care centers.
    It comes down to money. I have known FDs who try and recruit at open houses, rented portable signs and billboards, posted on their FD's signs at their stations taken ads in the local paper, even made announcements during Sunday services... and they may get a handful of prospective candidates.. who back out once they find out the requirements.

    Day care centers get big $$$ to watch and take care of children during regular business hours... asking them to stay open after hours will be costly.

    The fact is people still want to volunteer with the fire department, for any number of reasons (See Maslov). We just aren't very good at drawing them in and keeping them here.
    God.. I hate when Maslow gets mentioned (I had enough of Maslow's hierarchy of need questions on promotional exams.. and it has nothing to do with the job!). He only studied what he considered "exemplary people".. a true study would encompass all social strata.

    My last department in VT was pretty good at drawing people in and keeping them trained and active. My department here is also pretty good at doing that. We must have been and are just plain lucky.
    Yup...lucky.
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 08-08-2010 at 09:29 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  9. #34
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by L-Webb View Post
    For some departments having support personnel makes all the difference in the world.
    For some departments having people that can actually fight fires and do whatever task is needed of them makes all the difference in the world.

  10. #35
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No, not for the sake of this discussion. There IS a difference between the two.

    It sounds like this department would still be run and managed by the career staff. Would it be a bad thing if the volunteer staff, over time, took over the management of the department, and the career staff?
    Yes, it would be a bad thing. If a volunteer staffed/run department was such a viable option, then it probably would've happened a long time ago.

    We are just about the last combo department in our area to be run by a volunteer chief, and it still works fairly well. We have a Deputy Chief who manages the day-to-day operation, but the Chief still sets policy, develops goals and objectives, and handles major disciplinary issues, including issues with the career staff.
    By your own admissions, your department is predominately a volunteer fire department and supported by career staff. This is significantly different than having a career department and introducing volunteers into the mix (solely due to financial issues) and then turning over management responsibility of employees (career staff) to volunteer personnel.

    Maybe they could, but I think you may find that finding sufficient personnel to volunteer to be a problem.

    Maybe.

    Maybe not.

    Develop a well-coordinated recruiting program Give them a reasonable a flexible training plan. Implement a set of incentives. Make them feel like a part of the department. Let the volunteers know that once the program matures there will be leadership positions available to them within the department. And make it clear to the career staff that this is now the direction the department is taking and being on-board is not an option.

    Assuming the demographics exist to provide a manpower pool, I'm willing to be it would work in most communities.
    And exactly what "demographics" would that be?

    What would be your solution for the communities that don't have those necessary "demographics"?

  11. #36
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Then I take you, since you beleive that laying off paid staff and replacing them with volunteers is "going in the wrong direction" that paid staffing is somehow superior to volunteer staffing?
    Yes, in general it is. Having a well trained group of an appropriate number of firefighters on-duty/in-station 24/7/365 ready to respond immediately is clearly better than having a pool of personnel ranging from untrained to well trained who are typically "off-duty"/not in-station with no guarantee of who (or how fast they) will actually show up for a call.


    Now please don't confuse this with meaning that volunteers specifically can't provide adequate coverage. However, in my experiences, career staffing has been superior overall to the typical volunteer staffing I've seen.

  12. #37
    Let's talk fire trucks!
    BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Then I take you, since you beleive that laying off paid staff and replacing them with volunteers is "going in the wrong direction" that paid staffing is somehow superior to volunteer staffing?
    Don't put words in the brother's mouth. He said nothing about superiority.

    As another two-hatter here on the boards, I have to agree with him. It's not a matter of who's staffing is "better," there are certain issues that arise when you try to replace career staff with volunteers.

    As another poster pointed out, it's far different talking about replacing career members with volunteers in a career department than it is a volunteer department with career support. They're two completely different situations, and until you've worked in a career department, it's hard to understand the differences.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  13. #38
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Post Well...........

    Here's the way I see it...... There are several "Myths" out there that, if you successfully defeat them, will, and should, go away. "Volunteers don't have the Training that Paid Firefighters do" is one. Not only should Volunteers be well Trained, they can be with few problems, IF Management is willing to work WITH them...... "Volunteers Can't respond quick enough".... They can if they are in the Station. Duty Nights (and/or Days Too) Can fix that problem. In our situation, we do not depend on anyone coming from home since Traffic and Call Volume are Crazy. We put Apparatus on the Street in 1 Minute or less. "Our Call Volume is too much for Volunteers"..... Now There is a real wrong answer. My part of the World has Totally Volunteer Organizations that handle in excess of 10,000 Incidents annually........ "People just don't want to Volunteer any more".... Wrong Again. I know a Volunteer who drives over 80 miles to help out in a VFD....... Lotta bad info on Volunteering out there that shouldn't be allowed to continue....... Places that have Volunteer Problems should fix them, and sometimes looking in a Mirror is a good start......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  14. #39
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Here's the way I see it...... There are several "Myths" out there that, if you successfully defeat them, will, and should, go away. "Volunteers don't have the Training that Paid Firefighters do" is one. Not only should Volunteers be well Trained, they can be with few problems, IF Management is willing to work WITH them...... "Volunteers Can't respond quick enough".... They can if they are in the Station. Duty Nights (and/or Days Too) Can fix that problem. In our situation, we do not depend on anyone coming from home since Traffic and Call Volume are Crazy. We put Apparatus on the Street in 1 Minute or less. "Our Call Volume is too much for Volunteers"..... Now There is a real wrong answer. My part of the World has Totally Volunteer Organizations that handle in excess of 10,000 Incidents annually........ "People just don't want to Volunteer any more".... Wrong Again. I know a Volunteer who drives over 80 miles to help out in a VFD....... Lotta bad info on Volunteering out there that shouldn't be allowed to continue....... Places that have Volunteer Problems should fix them, and sometimes looking in a Mirror is a good start......
    Right on the money Harve!!!
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  15. #40
    Let's talk fire trucks!
    BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,313

    Default

    Harve, if only there we more VFD's that had the call volume and budgets that yall do in PG, the recruitment and retention might not be as big an issue for many of the others of us.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  16. #41
    Forum Member
    L-Webb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    For some departments having people that can actually fight fires and do whatever task is needed of them makes all the difference in the world.
    Yes you are right. Having Support personnel enables the people that can "fight fire" to do so.
    Bring enough hose.

  17. #42
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    In my world.. every firefighter has to be able to perform all of the tasks required. There is no "interior certified" and "exterior only" firefighters.

    Do the job right or don't do it at all.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  18. #43
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by L-Webb View Post
    Yes you are right. Having Support personnel enables the people that can "fight fire" to do so.
    You missed the point.

  19. #44
    Forum Member
    L-Webb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Ok I guess I did. Whats your point?
    Last edited by L-Webb; 08-09-2010 at 01:19 PM.
    Bring enough hose.

  20. #45
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Negative.

    There is nothing wrong with compensating volunteers for thier time.

    It's call motivation, and it's a critical part of keeping the team rolling.
    I'm not a huge fan of internet posters quoting from the dictionary, but your comments beg for it.

    From Dictionary.com

    Volunteer --

    1. a person who voluntarily offers himself or herself for a service or undertaking.
    2. a person who performs a service willingly and without pay.

    You are enticing people to perform a job through (meager) compensation. I stand by my earlier statement. Those volunteers are just a much cheaper paid staff, in union terms, scabs. It's like the difference between an escort and a street prostitute. They both do the same job, but one of them does it for a whole lot less!
    Last edited by MBarnes; 08-09-2010 at 06:31 PM.

  21. #46
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,593

    Default

    You are enticing people to perform a job through (meager) compensation. I stand by my earlier statement. Those volunteers are just a much cheaper paid staff, in union terms, scabs. It's like the difference between an escort and a street prostitute. They both do the same job, but one of them does it for a whole lot less!

    We are asking people to perform a community service and we are providing recognition and a slight reward for the time they put in.

    Amazing.

    This has nothing to do with a job. it is a hobby. yes, I used the dirty little word. Folks do this because they enjoy it. because they want a challenge. Because they enjoy the social aspect of the volunteer fire department. Because they have played on a team, and want to play on a team once again.

    And in most cases, they put in many hours and deserve something for their volunteer efforts.

    If you consider volunteers scabs, you must be drinking that union kool-aid by the gallon. And people wonder why have such disdain for the IAFF and career firefighters that walk the union line.

  22. #47
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    In my world.. every firefighter has to be able to perform all of the tasks required. There is no "interior certified" and "exterior only" firefighters.

    Do the job right or don't do it at all.

    And in your world citizens are probably paying through the nose for fire protection.

    Again, please explain to me why every responder on the fireground must ne interior qualified?

    So we reject the truck driver with tens of thousands of miles of driving experience because he doesn't want to go interior? We reject the person who may be in great shape but simply does not want to wear a mask but can raise ladders, lug fans and pull hose and work on water shuttles? We exclude the EMT that wants to work rehab, monitor vitals and fill bottles?

    Sorry Gonzo, but your logic makes no sense to me.

    I guess those 3 or 4 guiys a shift are better left to working all alone that surrounded by a team with specific skills.

  23. #48
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You are enticing people to perform a job through (meager) compensation. I stand by my earlier statement. Those volunteers are just a much cheaper paid staff, in union terms, scabs. It's like the difference between an escort and a street prostitute. They both do the same job, but one of them does it for a whole lot less!

    We are asking people to perform a community service and we are providing recognition and a slight reward for the time they put in.

    Amazing.

    This has nothing to do with a job. it is a hobby. yes, I used the dirty little word. Folks do this because they enjoy it. because they want a challenge. Because they enjoy the social aspect of the volunteer fire department. Because they have played on a team, and want to play on a team once again.

    And in most cases, they put in many hours and deserve something for their volunteer efforts.

    If you consider volunteers scabs, you must be drinking that union kool-aid by the gallon. And people wonder why have such disdain for the IAFF and career firefighters that walk the union line.
    Cool, "brother"...sign me up to help ya'll out. You've been nothing but a help for all of your "brothers" over in the 9/11 thread.


    Go f#ck yourself. You're as welcome here as scarecrow was.

  24. #49
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,593

    Default

    Here's the way I see it...... There are several "Myths" out there that, if you successfully defeat them, will, and should, go away. "Volunteers don't have the Training that Paid Firefighters do" is one. Not only should Volunteers be well Trained, they can be with few problems, IF Management is willing to work WITH them Fuuny thing is some of our volunteers have a higher level of training than our paid staff ...... "Volunteers Can't respond quick enough".... Our EMS qualified volunteers responding from home generally beat the paid staff housed in our Central Station in anywhere but the core area of our district. They can if they are in the Station. We usually have 2-3 volunteers in the station during the day and 4-5 at night supplementing the paid staff. Duty Nights (and/or Days Too) Can fix that problem. In our situation, we do not depend on anyone coming from home since Traffic and Call Volume are Crazy. We put Apparatus on the Street in 1 Minute or less. "Our Call Volume is too much for Volunteers"..... Now There is a real wrong answer. My part of the World has Totally Volunteer Organizations that handle in excess of 10,000 Incidents annually While we don't handle 10,000, we do handle more than jsut about any other combo department in northern LA. And by the way, we do it with the fewest number of paid staff......... "People just don't want to Volunteer any more".... Wrong Again. I know a Volunteer who drives over 80 miles to help out in a VFD....... Lotta bad info on Volunteering out there that shouldn't be allowed to continue....... There are a lot of bad attitudes regarding volunteers on this forum. It's really too bad.Places that have Volunteer Problems should fix them, and sometimes looking in a Mirror is a good start......

  25. #50
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And in your world citizens are probably paying through the nose for fire protection.

    Again, please explain to me why every responder on the fireground must ne interior qualified?

    So we reject the truck driver with tens of thousands of miles of driving experience because he doesn't want to go interior? We reject the person who may be in great shape but simply does not want to wear a mask but can raise ladders, lug fans and pull hose and work on water shuttles? We exclude the EMT that wants to work rehab, monitor vitals and fill bottles?

    Sorry Gonzo, but your logic makes no sense to me.

    I guess those 3 or 4 guiys a shift are better left to working all alone that surrounded by a team with specific skills.

    Yes, because when they are all that's left, and I'm lost inside a building with no air. Or, I am stuck inside inside pinned underneath a floor, they will be able to do as much for me as the ladies auxiliary.

    A fire scene is a dynamic situation, in which anything could and will happen. All people on that scene as a firefighter had sure as hell better be able to put a mask on and do firefighting work, otherwise they are useless.

    You claim to be about everyone going home; well, what about when your "non-interior" guys leave you to die, because having a beard was more important than having their mask fit properly, etc...

    Whatever; you're a joke.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Starke Fire Department
    By captstanm1 in forum Florida
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-07-2005, 03:26 PM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 08-03-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-05-2005, 07:09 PM
  3. 2004 report by IAFC report on the volunteer fire service
    By HeavyRescueTech in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-02-2004, 09:55 AM
  4. Leesburg Fla--Firefighters Take Issue with Cutbacks
    By captstanm1 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-22-2003, 03:39 PM
  5. Firefighters and City at Odds over Salary
    By captstanm1 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-02-2002, 11:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register