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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1 View Post
    Why would you ever need a hose lay that long? they were laying hose well over a mile. Ill bet thoes guys worked the next day all day just repacking it.
    My guess is to get water to the fire?

    From what I understand, it's not unheard of in Europe to do this quite frequently. Even though its not a driveway in the video, there are many long narrow driveways that make it difficult to get tankers up the driveway and get them turned around. So they lay long supply lines and will then lay portable pumps in series to get the water up to the fire. The source could either be tankers or a nearby stream, pond, etc.


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1 View Post
    Why would you ever need a hose lay that long? they were laying hose well over a mile. Ill bet thoes guys worked the next day all day just repacking it.
    Lookslike 48x (12x4) 50ft (or maybe in EUland its 20m).

    I'd like to know the travel speed. Looks like at least 20mph.

    Donut rolls vs flat load? +/-?

    We use a pickup for LDH hosewagon> Just backup pickup while loading vs donut rolls and then moving the rolls around. Find to be very handy to reload vs hosebed on to of a pumper. 30" from the ground vs 6'. Quick and safe. And for mutual aide calls doesn't take an apparatus out for district.

  3. #23
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    To whoever originally asked the questions about the donut rolls, please feel free to email any questions you have here if you need quick answers. I'm not on here as much as I used to be but have no problem helping any brother with anything.

    I'm no longer Captain at Westampton. After 3 very long, very busy, and very productive/progressive years, I've chosen to step down and let someone else move up and continue the progress. This has allowed me to return to my home town and focus on the company I grew up in. (Ok... bought a house and too lazy to commute now that I'm getting older)

    I'll be posting a thread in the next week or so about our recently delivered Ladder 12 (Quint for you Bruancini wannabe's). Something I'll highlight is that we were unable to fit rolls in this rig's front bumper because of the protrusion of the Impel cab's grill. Several of us worked for about 10 hours trying different ideas, and we settled on a modified horseshoe load that faces up, which allows us to do exactly what we were doing with the rolls, but fit into a tighter space. While not being anything special or fancy of a load, I'll show it because it may be an easy answer for those of you trying to take the next step towards "Combat Ready" hose loads, but don't have the room or means for the rolls.

    In the meantime, if anyone wants to check out our new rig, it's listed on Pierce's website under new deliveries. You can't miss it... it would be the Green one. Really Green.

    Sean Desjardins, Lieutenant
    Beverly Fire Company No. 1 (NJ)
    sdesjardins@beverlyfire121.org
    FTM-PTB DTRT

    Everything I state on here is to support and aid my fellow firefighters. Everything I post is my opinion only, and in no way should be taken as an official opinion of any Company, Department, or Municipality I represent... oh and this includes Pierce Mfg, as so their legal department has advised me; since they apparently also invented the right to control "Free Speech".

  4. #24
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    Short of being stuck with a bumper hosewell from someone else plans, why would you use this method? Seems like it may have been the only front bumper option or a hold over from back in the 80's.

    For those that have recently ordered trucks , or are going to, why not just spec a simple tray or x-lay trough on the bumper?

    I was thinking about some of the stuff we put out there and it seems like a simple solution for most pumpers, not all.

    Shelby

  5. #25
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 52shelby View Post
    For those that have recently ordered trucks , or are going to, why not just spec a simple tray or x-lay trough on the bumper?
    We're going to solicit bids for a new pumper for my VFD in the next few weeks. Our current pumper is pretty standard with three crosslays, but the on the new one, we're going to run our two primary attack lines off the front bumper. Certainly not everyone in the department is sold on this idea, but the majority are.

    We're still up-in-the-air about doing the curved trays like we've seen in a couple of the threads, or just doing a standard box. Right now, we're leaning towards the curved trays, but making them removable in case we want to make changes in the future.

    We elected not to do the bumper crosslay because for us, it defeated the reason for going to the front bumper rolls. Our response district consists of either 1000-1500SF homes with a short set back, or 2000-4000SF homes with long driveways and long setbacks. We had to focus on the those narrow driveways at the long houses that we deal with routinely, and knew that if we can get the pumper in there, coming straight off the front bumper with the rolls would provide us with quick deployment in an area no wider than the rig itself. We wouldn't have to worry about trees, woods, ditches, and roadways. It's not a one-size fits all answer, but for our response district, we think it will work well.

    Much of the influence for our pumper came from the photos and information here on FH.com.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 52shelby View Post
    Short of being stuck with a bumper hosewell from someone else plans, why would you use this method? Seems like it may have been the only front bumper option or a hold over from back in the 80's.

    For those that have recently ordered trucks , or are going to, why not just spec a simple tray or x-lay trough on the bumper?
    To start I'd note that we determined that we wanted a load that was easy to deploy by one firefighter Given our streets and front yards, we find that cross loading hose (anyway you load it) is not really conducive to making the stretch. Too often the firefighter must pull the load off the engine, turn and carry the load toward the front or rear of the engine to get to the lawn (we don't get the front spot) and then flake out the line. On our streets this is further hampered by cars parked on both sides, hedge rows, trash cans, you name it.

    The bumper loads allows you to stop the engine short allowing the truck it's rightful position (if it doesn't already lead). You always have a clear shot to make the stretch (in the street), it also allows you to drag 25 foot loops (50 ft of hose) with you until they tighten between you and the engine dropping the loop and continuing with the remaining. This allows you to end at your objective with all the un-stretched line vs. a pile somewhere further back toward the engine. Adding a length is a snap with a roll as you hold both couplings and don't have to drag the end to the nozzle or vice versa. Further, repacking hose is a matter of dropping 4 donut rolls in and connecting the couplings. Lastly our set-up with two donut loads on the bumper allows us to connect or disconnect any of the 8 rolls for stretches between 50 and 400 feet, which can be completed in 20 seconds.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefanthony View Post
    Many months ago there was a thread on here that discussed and showed a couple of videos of preconnected lines in the front bumper being donut rolled and stored standing up for a simple deployment. The thread even had a drawing or two on the set up for the storage area. I have searched and cannnot find it. Does anyone know where it may be or have a link. Thanks in advance for the help.
    Here is thier link http://www.chemeketa.edu/programs/ems/fire/index.html

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefanthony View Post
    Many months ago there was a thread on here that discussed and showed a couple of videos of preconnected lines in the front bumper being donut rolled and stored standing up for a simple deployment. The thread even had a drawing or two on the set up for the storage area. I have searched and cannnot find it. Does anyone know where it may be or have a link. Thanks in advance for the help.
    Chemekata Fire School in Salem oregon teaches a front bumper donut load that lets you pull out three lengths already pre-connected in the Front bumper, quite a few FDs in Oregon have adopted the load.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by getasupply View Post
    Where is the donut roll info?

  10. #30
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    Laddertruckgoes - can you clarify why the donut rolls won't fit on your new Pierce, and what is your bumper extension length? We have a Velocity Tower on order with a 24" bumper extension and are planning on the bumper rolls. We have them on our engine and they have worked very well and are planning on staying with that - if we can.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Where is the donut roll info?
    Send me an e-mail at getasupply@gmail.com and I will fire back a picture

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Where is the donut roll info?
    http://www.mcfd1.com/index.php?optio...d=82&Itemid=96

    Try sending the FTO an e-mail

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBLGFD View Post
    Laddertruckgoes - can you clarify why the donut rolls won't fit on your new Pierce, and what is your bumper extension length? We have a Velocity Tower on order with a 24" bumper extension and are planning on the bumper rolls. We have them on our engine and they have worked very well and are planning on staying with that - if we can.
    I'll have pictures up in the next few days...

    But...

    The rig has a 24" extension with a single large center well. Using Cotton DJ 1 3/4" hose in 50' lengths a very tightly rolled donut roll doesn't fit past the protrusion of the lower portion of the elaborate grill on the Velocity/Impel cabs. We could turn the rolls sideways and slide them into place under the well, but then the grill holds everything down tight, so that your working against a lot more resistance then typically required. I guess if we bought thinner more workable hose it might work a lot better, but hey, we work with what low bid gets us.

    This forced us to find a better option, because there's nothing worse then packing a flat load in a hose well. So, we came up with a modified horseshoe standing up, and it works really really well. Not as easy to pack as dropping 3 rolls in the well, but with practice it's coming along real quick.
    FTM-PTB DTRT

    Everything I state on here is to support and aid my fellow firefighters. Everything I post is my opinion only, and in no way should be taken as an official opinion of any Company, Department, or Municipality I represent... oh and this includes Pierce Mfg, as so their legal department has advised me; since they apparently also invented the right to control "Free Speech".

  14. #34
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    Here are some in production photos of our tower at Pierce - Velocity cab . After some discussion they were able to fit the well in on the outside of the frame rails - this is where we preferred it. The truck has a 22" extension, hose is 50' rolls of 1 3/4" Neidner Ultra 2000. As you can see there is some additional room for a fifth length . Currently considering a single length of 2 1/2" or 3" to a wye then out to eh 200 feet of 1 3/4"
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  15. #35
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    I guess I just don't see major advantages to the bumper donut roll load. Other than rapidly being able to reload it, but then again it only takes roughly 5 minutes to reload our bumper crosslays. Not saying that HEY! if it works for you that you shouldn't do it, just here good old fashioned crosslays, including those in the bumper of our newest engine work fine for us.

    I would love to post a picture of this. But the idiotic attachment setting here will not let you post a picture more than one time anywhere on this site. I even tried renaming it. If anyone knows how to circumvent this, PLEASE let me know. It is rather infuriating.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  16. #36
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    If anyone knows how to circumvent this, PLEASE let me know. It is rather infuriating.
    Check your messages.

    FM1
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  17. #37
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    Lightbulb More than re-loading, the deployment kicks Azz!

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I guess I just don't see major advantages to the bumper donut roll load. Other than rapidly being able to reload it, but then again it only takes roughly 5 minutes to reload our bumper crosslays.
    The rapid DEPLOYMENT is actually the primary benefit. Reloading is a nice aside, that most of us really don't need to worry about anyway.

    On the deployment side, the load is aligned with the engine so if you can drive in, you can pull it straight off. All of the load is on the ground in 25', flaked over the firefighters arm to drop as you go, bringing all the working length with the nozzle. As soon as you stop and drop any excess hose, it's pre-laid out in "Z" fashion in 25' legs. This all means no worrying about pulling into parked cars, shrubs on the sides of driveways, garbage cans, fences, etc. Right now, snowbanks would slow a traditional crosslay load on our side streets that are down to about 1.25 lanes! As far as length, the load can be easily split in any multiple of the number of rolls carried. Just disconnect and use what you need. In our case, with two 200' loads, we can connect them and have any length from 50 feet to 400 feet in seconds. Another aside is that all 1.75" lines are rolled in the bumper load fashion and stored this way, making re-racking simple, but also making line extensions easy with both ends being at the coupling point.

    As noted, you use what works best for you, we have long tried multiple loads to find the easiest to deploy consistently. Our goals were: must be a one man stretch up to 200 ft., the working length needed to arrive with the nozzle, no hose left on the pump end and the stretch had to be usable without too much going back to flake out. The bumper load once tried, slayed all the others we'd tried before it. When we can get 99% of our firefighters (I'm sure this is true everywhere) to agree on something, as they do with this load, we know it's the one that'll be best for us. I truly cannot think of another issue of any importance that such a high percentage agree on. It wasn't overnight, but with training and use, it won all the skeptics over too.

    I'm going to have my crew work on a video of the different deployments: 200 ft., and multiple of less and more, this spring.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 02-12-2011 at 08:28 AM.

  18. #38
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    I fully agree with RFDACM02 the deployment side works well. We have been running this setup on our two pumper tankers with good success, the oldest for 11 years. When we started talking about the tower the membership said they would just as soon not consider any other type of hose load on the Tower. On our pumper tankers we are able to have dual 200's lays and a pre-connected 6" front suction with a low flow strainer . Makes for a busy bumper but lots of options

  19. #39
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    Really nice discussion of the advantages of this load here. Anybody using these off the rear at all? I kind of botched our rear pre-connect by allowing the door to be horribly in the way. We've stopped running the rig first-out anyway, and I just wish we had donuts on our first-out engine (no front bumper).

    Box Alarm - what's the status of your new rig? Is it in production?

    SBLG - I've been out of touch for a while. Are the donuts working well on the new tower?

    ACM - Looking forward to seeing those videos. My guess is that, if it's been as chilly up there as it has been here, you haven't gotten to "Spring Projects" yet!

    I seem to recall that Bones had a new engine coming that may have had donut lines on it, too. Perhaps he can chime in here.

  20. #40
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    Blitz,

    Nice to hear from you. Towers not here yet - its at tool mounting at the dealer thru next week. The hose load should be fine - they made the tub a little oversize from what we wanted so there is actually room for 250' if we want or a 50' roll of 2 1/2" then the 200' 1 3/4" . Still discussing the options

    SBLGFD
    Last edited by SBLGFD; 04-23-2011 at 09:19 AM. Reason: spelling

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