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  1. #61
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedozer View Post
    I'll give my own two cents on nozzle choice by saying a few things...

    I always enjoy when the "job" rediscovers the new-old-new way of doing things. The nozzles are just another example. smoothbore is my choice. The term STRAIGHT STREAM is not the same as what you are trying to get back to which is SOLID STREAM FROM AN OPEN BORE BARREL OF A CONTROLING NOZZLE. Second, the extinguishment process for people inside a burning building WHETHER CIVILIANS OR YOU, is to cool the source of the fuel - the fuel being gas that is given off by every solid (almost) when it reaches its individual ignition temperature. Cool below it = no gas discharge = no fuel supply = fire shut down = extinguishment. To have this effective with human beings inside the structure it has to be habitable even for fully protected firefighters. Steam - inerting the atmosphere does not allow for life to sustain itself - no air supply and heat above the tolerance of a fully protected firefighter. If you want to get into delivery of 85 percent of the water to the fuel source without dissapation to steam now you have another reason. Also you would not have nozzles with space age names and enough springs and moving parts to build half a Indy racing car.

    2 inch is better than 1 3/4 but 2.5 is best. a 2.5 line has become something passed over more and more commonly due to its weight. this is a blue collar job, we're firemen, if a few guys can't muscle it there's problems. if you have to, wait for another engine company and team them up.
    While I agree with some of what you have said there is a distinct difference between the stream from a 100 psi combo nozzle and either a 50, or 75 psi, low pressure combo nozzle. The stream from a low pressure combo nozzle has larger droplets and is very similar to a smoothbore. Is it exactly the same as a smoothbore? Not at all, but the stream maintains cohesion far better than a 100 psi straight stream.

    The truth is most line firefighters have little or no input on the type of nozzle they will use so it is prudent to learn its capabilities AND how to use it to your best advantage.

    Other than being able to lay a longer line, please tell me the difference between flowing, 200, 250, 300, or even 400 gpm through a 2 inch line versus a 2 1/2? Well other than the 2 inch hose is lighter and more easily moved with 2 or 3 firefighters than a duece and a half.

    It is one thing to tell people to man up or use another company and quite another to face the realities of today's fire service. The facts are many smaller FD's do nto have those additional manpower resources. My volly FD for example can layout 2 - 2 inch lines and flow up to 600 gpm if we chose to with 4 personnel. Or we can lay one 2 1/2 and flow up to around 400 plus gpm and use those same 4 personnel. Which seems a more efficient use of personnel to you?
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

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  2. #62
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    Question for departments using 1 1/4" smoothbores instead of 1 1/8" tips on their 2 1/2" lines:

    Do you use the 1 1/4" tip for offensive attack with a two-man hose team? How practical is this for advancement while flowing?

    We are currently evaluating our water delivery setup, and I was envisioning using the 1 1/8" for offensive attacks, and the 1 1/4" tip for defensive/stationary operation, given the limits of a two person hose team, where the officer is also the backup and the door man, all rolled into one.

  3. #63
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    Thanks to all that posted information, all good reading. So here it is, another questions. We have orderd and received from our local dealer that sells Akron two shutoff's with smooth bore tips. I had asked for a 1 1/8 inch tip. It has this but it is a stacked tip. The end tip that scews off has a 1/2 inch opening that says it flow I belive 50 gpm at 50 psi. If you screw this off you have the 1 1/8 inch tip, but it is very short, maybe only three inches in length. I am wondering without trying it what type of stream will come out of it. Would a longer 1 1/8 inch smooth bore tip produce a better stream?

  4. #64
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSMV72 View Post
    Thanks to all that posted information, all good reading. So here it is, another questions. We have orderd and received from our local dealer that sells Akron two shutoff's with smooth bore tips. I had asked for a 1 1/8 inch tip. It has this but it is a stacked tip. The end tip that scews off has a 1/2 inch opening that says it flow I belive 50 gpm at 50 psi. If you screw this off you have the 1 1/8 inch tip, but it is very short, maybe only three inches in length. I am wondering without trying it what type of stream will come out of it. Would a longer 1 1/8 inch smooth bore tip produce a better stream?
    Did your setup come with a stream shaper?
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Did your setup come with a stream shaper?
    Sorry, this will be dumb, but I do not believe so. It came with the shutoff with a 2 1/2 inch inlet, 1 1/2 out let. Attached to the 1.5 inch outlet is the stack tip that is two parts, one is the 1 1/8 inch and screwed on to that is the smaller tip. Nothing else in between.

  6. #66
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSMV72 View Post
    Sorry, this will be dumb, but I do not believe so. It came with the shutoff with a 2 1/2 inch inlet, 1 1/2 out let. Attached to the 1.5 inch outlet is the stack tip that is two parts, one is the 1 1/8 inch and screwed on to that is the smaller tip. Nothing else in between.
    Check for two things. Your shutoff you received may have one built in. If not, you can get a screw on stream shaper for under $50.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  7. #67
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzfireSolo View Post
    Question for departments using 1 1/4" smoothbores instead of 1 1/8" tips on their 2 1/2" lines:

    Do you use the 1 1/4" tip for offensive attack with a two-man hose team? How practical is this for advancement while flowing?

    We are currently evaluating our water delivery setup, and I was envisioning using the 1 1/8" for offensive attacks, and the 1 1/4" tip for defensive/stationary operation, given the limits of a two person hose team, where the officer is also the backup and the door man, all rolled into one.
    we teach two seperate ways mainly here. (there are more ways to do it though)

    first the nozzleman will have the left foot forward and then kneel back on the right. the left hand is for the bale and subsequently behind the coupling at the nozzle during the attack, the right hand will grasp the hoseline and as much as possible the hose is placed up into the right armpit. the backup man will either face forward or back wards taking the reaction force. the backup man can do his job by sitting on the hose, kneeling on the hose, or just grasping onto it.

    secondly (this can be done solo also) is to place one of your right shin on top of the hose and and with about 3 feet of hose in front of the shin one man can deflect the reaction force to the ground effectively. this works well inplace of a hose loop, webbing, or sitting down on the hose since those usally mean a loss of quick mobility. fyi one hand must be place near the bend of the hose infront of the shin or the line may kink right there. the other hand is for the bale and then behind the coupling of the nozzle during the attack.

    there are other ways but hope those help.
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  8. #68
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    JSMV - Yes, a longer tip would generally produce a better stream. I'd caution you to think twice before adding a stream shaper, though: you don't want to lose the intrinsic ability to flush debris.


    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Maybe the answer is to use lengths of 3 inch hose to feed your final 100 feet of 2 inch attack line.
    That's what I'm planning on doing for our static attack lines, except using 2 1/2" behind the 100' of 2".

  9. #69
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    A stream shaper while a nice touch and will definitely produce a better looking, more cohesive stream over longer ranges is hardly needed for interior fire attack where ranges rarely exceed 30 feet.

    If you are using the stream for longer ranges, such as defensive surround and drown operations, then a stream shaper is probably a good idea. It will help shape the water into a more cohesive stream for better reach. But for interior attacks the small amount of flyaway or stream break-up that occurs from a shorter nozzle or slug tip is inconsequential in my humble opinion.

    My volly FD uses a 1 1/4 inch slug tip behind our combo nozzle on our 2 inch lines. We understood from the start that we would give up some range and some stream cohesiveness. But we made the decision that less weight and less length of the nozzle was more important than a better looking and longer reaching stream.

    Either way, the decision is based on local factors and you should do what works best for your circumstances.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  10. #70
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzfireSolo View Post
    Question for departments using 1 1/4" smoothbores instead of 1 1/8" tips on their 2 1/2" lines:

    Do you use the 1 1/4" tip for offensive attack with a two-man hose team? How practical is this for advancement while flowing?

    We are currently evaluating our water delivery setup, and I was envisioning using the 1 1/8" for offensive attacks, and the 1 1/4" tip for defensive/stationary operation, given the limits of a two person hose team, where the officer is also the backup and the door man, all rolled into one.
    We primarily added the 1 1/4 inch slug tip as a heavy hit nozzle on our 2 inch line. We would go to that if the combo nozzle wasn't cutting it.

    If we were going to use it offensively with a 2 person crew my technique would be to kill all the fire I possibly could and then either shut the nozzle off and move up or at the very least gate it back to a more manageable flow and then advance. Witha 2 person crew trying to advance while flowing 300 plus gpm would seem almost impossible and dangerous.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  11. #71
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzfireSolo View Post
    JSMV - Yes, a longer tip would generally produce a better stream. I'd caution you to think twice before adding a stream shaper, though: you don't want to lose the intrinsic ability to flush debris.




    That's what I'm planning on doing for our static attack lines, except using 2 1/2" behind the 100' of 2".
    Doesn't sound like a bad idea at all for static lines. Becuase we don't use it, what size couplings does your 2" line have?
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  12. #72
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Doesn't sound like a bad idea at all for static lines. Becuase we don't use it, what size couplings does your 2" line have?

    The 2 inch hose we have for my volly FD has 1 1/2 inch couplings. They are 5 piece couplings.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-03-2010 at 08:53 PM.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

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