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    Default IAFC - Chiefs Show

    Took a ride downtown to check out the exhibits. Was not suprised that American LaFrance wasn't there but didn't expect Seagrave to also be a no-show. They must also be on the downward slide.

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    LaFrance was there with at least two rigs.... Far east side of the hall.
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    Seagrave wasn't at the Fire Expo in Baltimore in late July either. I was told their absense from that show was due to the cost to display in Balto. I'm sure it was the same thing in Chicago. Things are getting very tight up in Clintonville and I'm sure their orders are down, especially since they've lost the recent FDNY contracts. I'm still hearing rumors (and that's all it is) that the company or LLC or whatever that owns Ferrara is interested in buying Seagrave. If this is the indeed the case, I would have to think that it would be to buy the capability to build "their own" aerial ladders so they can quit buying them from Smeal. They would also pick up the Aerialscope market which would fall right into their current situation in supplying the FDNY.
    Last edited by LeadOff; 08-28-2010 at 01:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    LaFrance was there with at least two rigs.... Far east side of the hall.
    LaFrance wasn't on the exhibitor's list. Were these two rigs there to show off some other products.

    This would have been the most inexpensive show for Seagrave since the plant was only a 2 hour drive away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retiredtruckman View Post
    This would have been the most inexpensive show for Seagrave since the plant was only a 2 hour drive away.
    I'm afraid there's a lot more to it than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadOff View Post
    I'm afraid there's a lot more to it than that.
    I too have to agree with this.

    That company is slowly slipping away. Loosing the FDNY bid, which you can give them a share of the blame as well as the City of New York purchasing, they might get back on their feet.

    If the present supplier of aerials doesn't live up to what is expected, the NYC may end up going back to that company.

    I sure wouldn't want to be in that car or fire apparatus with you driving from Clintonville to Chicago in that is only two hours away.

    A little further than that by highway!


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    Quote Originally Posted by retiredtruckman View Post
    LaFrance wasn't on the exhibitor's list. Were these two rigs there to show off some other products.

    This would have been the most inexpensive show for Seagrave since the plant was only a 2 hour drive away.
    I'm sure that ALF was there as displays for ALF. The banners touted the ALF product.

    Was I smoking crack? Anyone else at the Chicago show that saw them? I seem to remember one of the trucks being yellow.
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    Not Ripe yet? T.C.

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    Yes, ALF had a Squrt, engine (the yellow one mentioned, Ventura County, CA), and an antique there. See attached crappy cell phone pic:
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    Not BAD.......for a Cell phone. T.C.

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    Pierce had a big booth with a lot of nice trucks but I think Crimson had the most impressive booth with a lot of interesting trucks including a Chicago ladder they just built and a Chicago pumper.
    Last edited by ladderman; 08-29-2010 at 09:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    I'm sure that ALF was there as displays for ALF. The banners touted the ALF product.

    Was I smoking crack? Anyone else at the Chicago show that saw them? I seem to remember one of the trucks being yellow.
    They were there. Talked to their national sales manager and service manager. Looked like last minute deal as old display at far end of the floor from the other apparatus. Said operating all out of the SC plant and PA plant so I guess the LTI plant is still planned at some level.

    Rosy only had one apparatus on hand. What's up with that? Pierce and E-One had large displays. Went over for the giveaway of the E-One pumper. Some happy guys. The consoliation prizes for the next 6 FD were not so bad either.

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    ALF continues to remain an enigma wrapped in a riddle. Just when you think they're about to be pronounced dead, they pop up at a show like everything is just fine. Same thing happened in Harrisburg in May. Hard to figure. It doesn't look like they have much of a future in operating out of the old LTI facilities in Ephrata, PA. Crimson Aerials is about to move into the main building up there. ALF is still operating in one of the smaller buildings with a hand full of employees but not for much longer from what I've heard. Maybe they will continue to build pumpers at the SC facility but seriously doubt they will build aerials down there. Maybe they will buy aerials from Crimson and put them on their chassis. Now that would be a real twist!

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Rosy only had one apparatus on hand. What's up with that? Pierce and E-One had large displays. Went over for the giveaway of the E-One pumper. Some happy guys. The consoliation prizes for the next 6 FD were not so bad either.
    What were the consolation prizes, just outta curiosity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    I too have to agree with this.

    That company is slowly slipping away. Loosing the FDNY bid, which you can give them a share of the blame as well as the City of New York purchasing, they might get back on their feet.

    If the present supplier of aerials doesn't live up to what is expected, the NYC may end up going back to that company.

    I sure wouldn't want to be in that car or fire apparatus with you driving from Clintonville to Chicago in that is only two hours away.

    A little further than that by highway!


    Total Travel Estimate: 4 hours 3 minutes / 217.27 miles

    I don't think he was talking about anything with Seagrave, I think he was talking about the massive cost associated with displaying anything at these shows. The cost of driving apparatus to the shows is nothing compared to the costs payed to the show and the hall to have the booth, move in equipment, carpet, electrical, etc.

    Not saying why anyone was or wasn't there, just not sure how many people realize the cost involved in actually being a vendor at one of these shows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johngagemn View Post
    I don't think he was talking about anything with Seagrave, I think he was talking about the massive cost associated with displaying anything at these shows. The cost of driving apparatus to the shows is nothing compared to the costs payed to the show and the hall to have the booth, move in equipment, carpet, electrical, etc.

    Not saying why anyone was or wasn't there, just not sure how many people realize the cost involved in actually being a vendor at one of these shows.
    I know this was indeed the case for the show in Baltimore. Just the opposite for the Harrisburg show. All of the little guys, even the outfits that just do rebuilds show up in Harrisburg. I would guess that the Chicago show would also be pricey. Not sure what the situation is at Seagrave these days but I would have to think it would not be that good. The entire fire apparatus industry is hurting to some extent these days with the economy still recovering but it could be a little worse for some of the builders like Seagrave. The loss of the FDNY work has to hurt them to some extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadOff View Post
    Seagrave wasn't at the Fire Expo in Baltimore in late July either. I was told their absense from that show was due to the cost to display in Balto. I'm sure it was the same thing in Chicago. Things are getting very tight up in Clintonville and I'm sure their orders are down, especially since they've lost the recent FDNY contracts. I'm still hearing rumors (and that's all it is) that the company or LLC or whatever that owns Ferrara is interested in buying Seagrave. If this is the indeed the case, I would have to think that it would be to buy the capability to build "their own" aerial ladders so they can quit buying them from Smeal. They would also pick up the Aerialscope market which would fall right into their current situation in supplying the FDNY.
    I bet the FDNY is going to be real proud of the new Ferrara fleet. Guess the mechanics will like them.....job security.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    What were the consolation prizes, just outta curiosity?
    1st 2nd 3rd runners up each received 3 sets TO w/helmet and _____.

    4th, 5th, 6th runners up a Hale portable pump and some other stuff.

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    These shows are getting incredibly expensive. A 10'x10' booth was anywhere from $1,050 to $1,225. Parking, even for exhibitors, was $19 per day. Then you have the guys salaries, move in costs, hotels, meals, etc... spending $3,000 to $4,000 is very easy at these things.

    I was surprised to see ALF there, and surprised that Seagrave wasn't there. As it was mentioned earlier, it's the closest show to Clintonville. It seemed like everyone had some nice rigs there though. Overall... good show.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    What were the consolation prizes, just outta curiosity?
    The biggest point, which I neglected to mention, is they announced will be giving another pumper away next year. Did not say if would be Chiefs Show, FDIC, or ____.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim1118 View Post
    These shows are getting incredibly expensive. A 10'x10' booth was anywhere from $1,050 to $1,225. Parking, even for exhibitors, was $19 per day. Then you have the guys salaries, move in costs, hotels, meals, etc... spending $3,000 to $4,000 is very easy at these things.

    I was surprised to see ALF there, and surprised that Seagrave wasn't there. As it was mentioned earlier, it's the closest show to Clintonville. It seemed like everyone had some nice rigs there though. Overall... good show.
    Multiply that by a factor of 10 if you want to display a truck.

    Oh, and don't forget to add 80 cents per pound drayage fees for everything that you need to move to your booth that isn't bolted to a truck.
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    That's very true John. The unfortunate thing is, that these costs push the price tags of vendor products up... whether it's trucks or gloves. I really think one national show a year would be enough. I've noticed, even the Chiefs and Firefighters are tired of so many shows. I think it's just become too much of a business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim1118 View Post
    These shows are getting incredibly expensive. A 10'x10' booth was anywhere from $1,050 to $1,225. Parking, even for exhibitors, was $19 per day. Then you have the guys salaries, move in costs, hotels, meals, etc... spending $3,000 to $4,000 is very easy at these things.

    ...
    The long time BS at McCormick Place is why many of the big trade shows are boycotting Chicago. The next couple years are going to leave that big barn empty much of the time and the militant union thugs running the joint, as a result of their chosen actions, are going to be UNEMPLOYED. Real smart. The convention center in Rosemont, a few miles down the road, on the other hand is busy 24/7 but the big shows are going to Orlando, Dallas, Vegas. To bad so sad. $19 to park. 1/2hr minimum to hire an "electrician" to plug in a dropcord, etc etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    The long time BS at McCormick Place is why many of the big trade shows are boycotting Chicago. The next couple years are going to leave that big barn empty much of the time and the militant union thugs running the joint, as a result of their chosen actions, are going to be UNEMPLOYED. Real smart. The convention center in Rosemont, a few miles down the road, on the other hand is busy 24/7 but the big shows are going to Orlando, Dallas, Vegas. To bad so sad. $19 to park. 1/2hr minimum to hire an "electrician" to plug in a dropcord, etc etc etc.
    Many of the ridiculous demands and requirements were lifted for FRI. There was a link on FRI's site for exhibitors regarding this, and I had a discussion with a Darley employee on his way to the show about how things were made better this year than in the past. I do believe that parties went to court over it though...

    That facility is a great venue for such a show. But Chicago ruins it for themselves. Then again, I don't think I'll be going to Atlanta for next year's FRI. But you can bet I'll find my way to Indy again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim1118 View Post
    That's very true John. The unfortunate thing is, that these costs push the price tags of vendor products up... whether it's trucks or gloves. I really think one national show a year would be enough. I've noticed, even the Chiefs and Firefighters are tired of so many shows. I think it's just become too much of a business.
    Yep, every dime spent to put all of those fancy displays up, paid to the convention centers to move stuff around, hotels, meals, drinks, taxi fare, air fare, we pay for it all in the cost of our apparatus, bunker gear, thermal imagers, nozzles, etc; and most of the vendors feel obliged to show up at everything. You don't show up and right away people start the rumor mill about why you weren't there. (See earlier discussion in this thread about Seagrave.)
    Just a guy...

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