Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 43
  1. #1
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    The State of N.J.
    Posts
    1,389

    Default FF Loses Life Trying to Save DPW Worker

    Low Oxygen Levels in Manhole Deaths in Tarrytown
    TARRYTOWN, N.Y. (AP) - Oxygen levels were dangerously low in a Tarrytown manhole where a sewer worker collapsed and died and a firefighter died trying to save him, a fire department official said Tuesday.

    Autopsies were planned in hopes of learning what killed Anthony Ruggiero, 48, and John Kelly, 51, in a sewer system manhole, village administrator Michael Blau said. Tarrytown is 24 miles north of New York City.

    Blau said Ruggiero, who was with the Department of Public Works, was checking a report of a sewer backup and Kelly, a volunteer firefighter, was assisting him. The manhole was behind a fire station.

    Ruggiero collapsed in the manhole and Kelly went down to help him but also collapsed, Mayor Drew Fixell said. It took 15 to 20 minutes to get them out. They were pronounced dead at Westchester Medical Center


  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    469

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by len1582 View Post
    Low Oxygen Levels in Manhole Deaths in Tarrytown
    TARRYTOWN, N.Y. (AP) - Oxygen levels were dangerously low in a Tarrytown manhole where a sewer worker collapsed and died and a firefighter died trying to save him, a fire department official said Tuesday.

    Autopsies were planned in hopes of learning what killed Anthony Ruggiero, 48, and John Kelly, 51, in a sewer system manhole, village administrator Michael Blau said. Tarrytown is 24 miles north of New York City.

    Blau said Ruggiero, who was with the Department of Public Works, was checking a report of a sewer backup and Kelly, a volunteer firefighter, was assisting him. The manhole was behind a fire station.

    Ruggiero collapsed in the manhole and Kelly went down to help him but also collapsed, Mayor Drew Fixell said. It took 15 to 20 minutes to get them out. They were pronounced dead at Westchester Medical Center
    3 died in 1985 in Radcliff Ky in a underground pumping station. From then to now there is no telling how many have lost their lives in the same situations. When will it come to light that ALL underground structures are to be monitored for ALL air situations (low O2, methane, H2SO and so forth)?
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber fieldseng2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Thoughts and prayers to the families of the fallen.



    I wasnt there, and I dont have any details so I wont critisize anyone involved, but here is some friendly info/advice for all of you who may respond to an incident like this...



    60% of all confined space fatalities are WOULD BE RESCUERS!!!


    If you don't have the proper training, if you don't have the proper PPE, monitoring equipment, ventilation, etc.....DO NOT ENTER A CONFINED SPACE!

    If you don't have the proper training, if you don't have the proper PPE, monitoring equipment, ventilation, etc.....DO NOT ENTER A CONFINED SPACE!

    If you don't have the proper training, if you don't have the proper PPE, monitoring equipment, ventilation, etc.....DO NOT ENTER A CONFINED SPACE!

    (YES...I repeated it on purpose!!!)

    I won't rob this thread any more other than saying confined spaces have MANY potential hazards!!! A "container" does not have to be below grade to be labled as a confined space. I've dealt with many a confined space that was well above grade level.

    Just because you don't see danger doesnt mean its not there, especially in confined spaces.

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,377

    Default

    Classic risk v. benefit where often we develop tunnel vision and feel the obligation to do something, often without the training and equipment.

    Until we make it known that this is 100% unacceptable 100% of the time, it will continue.

    This scenario could have been a water rescue, an ice rescue, a trench rescue, or a fire with the good Samaritan firefighter making entry without gear, a hoseline and/or an SCBA.

    Until everyone in the fire service understands that we are the priority 100% of the time, we will continue to lose brothers in this fashion.

  5. #5
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,485

    Talking

    A sewer manhole behind a fire station :::: Of course there was toxic gas in there!

  6. #6
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    A sewer manhole behind a fire station :::: Of course there was toxic gas in there!
    Seriously, a Firefighter and a DPW worker are DEAD and you find humor in the situation. Really? PATHETIC, simply pathetic.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  7. #7
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,485

    Default

    So you would rather hear that two trained professionals broke all the rules and forgot all their training about confined space entry and died because of it ???

    Stupid is as stupid does

  8. #8
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    So you would rather hear that two trained professionals broke all the rules and forgot all their training about confined space entry and died because of it ???

    Stupid is as stupid does
    The fact that you continue to defend your "humor" is even more stupid and pathetic.

    My deepest sympathies to the families of the men involved.

  9. #9
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    So you would rather hear that two trained professionals broke all the rules and forgot all their training about confined space entry and died because of it ???

    Stupid is as stupid does
    No, I would rather, if you are really this ignorant and classless, that you just shut the hell up and go away. The fire service has a lot of humorous moments but the death of one of our own and a victim is hardly an appropriate place for humor.

    Yes, it is true stupid is as stupid does and your 2 posts in this topic are epic examples of that.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  10. #10
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    This is the LODD that always scares me the most, because it could happen at the slowest firehouse and at the department that hasn't had a worker in 3 years. Everyone has confined spaces...

    Please be motivated by this tragedy to host a confined space awareness class at your firehouse. Its required if you ever intend to operate in one. I know it is required in NJ.

    http://www.state.nj.us/dca/dfs/memocert.htm

    Confined Space Training: Departments with the potential for confined space work must have initial training required by and must meet NJAC 12:100-9. Initial training and refresher training no set hours. Must cover topics in 29 CFR 1910.146. Refresher training when procedures or confined spaces change. US Department of Labor. http://www.osha.gov/index.html


    Sincerest condolences to those involved.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    Very sad.

    Thoughts and prayers go out to their families.





    islandfire03.....

    There is a time and place for everything. Making jokes about a death of anyone, especially a firefighter, is no place for jokes, or the defense of making a joke. Tacky and disrespectful at best. This is not typical of you so I am surprised at this comment. Show some respect and just keep quiet and move on.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  12. #12
    Forum Member mtg55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,313

    Default

    Well said Ken. I've seen some firehouses that have confined spaces IN them. They are everywhere. Be careful, Be safe. My condolences to all involved.
    Matt G.
    Battalion Chief
    IACOJ-Member
    FTM-PTB

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1

    Default a preventable tragedy

    industrial scientific in oakdale, pa makes portable gas detection meters and fixed point gas detection systems.
    I dont doubt that a portable gas detector was available or at least had been brought to the attention of this town.
    Maybe some stupid secretary hung up on the salesperson who called to tell them about it.
    DPW and the FD need portable gas detectors for exactly these situations.
    Also, i cant believe that the FF jumped into the hole without portable air after seeing the DPW worker collapse.
    PS - I dont work for ind sci but I found them thru google as anybody else could.
    My deepest condolences to all those family and friends who are suffering from these terrible losses.

  14. #14
    Forum Member mtg55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomj1743 View Post
    industrial scientific in oakdale, pa makes portable gas detection meters and fixed point gas detection systems.
    I dont doubt that a portable gas detector was available or at least had been brought to the attention of this town.
    Maybe some stupid secretary hung up on the salesperson who called to tell them about it.
    DPW and the FD need portable gas detectors for exactly these situations.
    Also, i cant believe that the FF jumped into the hole without portable air after seeing the DPW worker collapse.
    PS - I dont work for ind sci but I found them thru google as anybody else could.
    My deepest condolences to all those family and friends who are suffering from these terrible losses.
    Um, wait. What? Tom rank and years in please, I'm really hoping this isn't a shameless plug....
    Matt G.
    Battalion Chief
    IACOJ-Member
    FTM-PTB

  15. #15
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,151

    Unhappy

    From what I read no SCBA or supplied type of breathing apparatus was used. In these day, that should have been a number one priority.

    There isn't any place in this thread for humor. as if you do this job long enough it will affect you or your department!

    We lost two members, a Captain and Fireman back in June 1963 trying to rescue 2 city workers in an open hole in the street, which they were working in. Overcome from methane gas. Back then all the engine companies had was the All Service Mask. By the time the truck company arrived, which had 2 scotts, the members had tried in vain to affect the rescue.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  16. #16
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,555

    Default

    Islandfire03... you are way out of line....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  17. #17
    Some Guy
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    I don't know but I here laughing.
    Posts
    987

    Default

    The DPW worker was also a fellow firefighter at the same fire department. Rest in peace.
    This space for rent

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    62

    Default Sad Story

    What a sad story. I know...

    If you don't have the proper training, if you don't have the proper PPE, monitoring equipment, ventilation, etc.....DO NOT ENTER A CONFINED SPACE!

    But man, I am not 100% sure what I would do if a fellow FF and probably good friend collapsed right in front of me, just down the bottom of a hole. Age indicates the would be rescuer may have been considering the DPW worker had an MI, who knows. I just know that I would have a hard time following protocol if I were there alone and witnessed this.

    Easy to say you would get the proper gear and resources on the internet, but I am not so sure I would.

    I guess I am a candidate for future statistic.

  19. #19
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    It would definately be a tough decision. For what its worth, if an SCBA is not readily available, an O2 bottle and non-rebreather from a nearby EMS bag would probably do the job in a pinch.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    It would definately be a tough decision. For what its worth, if an SCBA is not readily available, an O2 bottle and non-rebreather from a nearby EMS bag would probably do the job in a pinch.

    With all due respect, those are the kinds of shortcuts we often use and end up paying the price.

    The downed DPW worker also being a firefighter certainly did complicate this situation.

    However, there are times that we do have to admit likely defeat on arrival, and normally this type of situation is one of those times. Any shortcutting in terms of PPE or training in situations like this, on the very off-chance that the victim is still alive or viable, should be something that we as a service defiantly view as unacceptable.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Father-Son duo save man's life
    By sconfire in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-23-2004, 08:52 PM
  2. FYI in CA
    By hootman in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-28-2004, 12:04 AM
  3. Life Flight helicopter pilot Brent Cowley- EMS LODD
    By NJFFSA16 in forum Line of Duty: In Memory Of
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-09-2003, 01:10 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-22-2003, 09:17 AM
  5. Kentalnd & Local 1619 Save A Life
    By PGVolunteers in forum Fire Wire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-17-2000, 12:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts