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    Default FDNY Squad Companies?

    Can someone form the FDNY please define the difference between a Squad Company and and Engine Company or a Rescue Company. I guess my understanding is a Squad is a Rescue Lite.

    What additional equipment does a squad carry that an engine doesn't?

    Sorry if this has been answered before but for some reason my curiousity got the better of me this evening so I had to ask.

    Thanks.
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    I think a FDNY squad is an engine + ladder company equipment, but I think they also carry some Haz-mat and technical rescue equipment. Around me a squad is a engine/light rescue. Oh, and I'm not from FDNY.
    Last edited by FireRescue61; 09-10-2010 at 08:54 PM.

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    Here is some details of FDNY Squad 18.

    http://www.fdnysquad18.com/therig.php

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    Based on an ad in FAJ for a book about FDNY squads, they've run about everything in the book, from bread trucks to rescue engines.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Can someone form the FDNY please define the difference between a Squad Company and and Engine Company or a Rescue Company. I guess my understanding is a Squad is a Rescue Lite.

    What additional equipment does a squad carry that an engine doesn't?

    Sorry if this has been answered before but for some reason my curiousity got the better of me this evening so I had to ask.

    Thanks.
    Both the squads and rescues are special units which fall under the special operations command (SOC).

    There are a total of seven squads and 5 rescues. For squad locations and units, there are two in da Bronx, (sq41 & sq61) two in Brooklyn (252 & 1), two in Queens (270 & 288) and one in Manhattan (18).

    Each squad has a 1st due district where they operate as an engine co. and with that comes the usual engine company runs, BS, EMS runs (CFR-D) ect...In addition, the squads are called upon to go to most fires of any significance in there regional portion of the borough, (they can end up anywhere) which means they go to far more jobs than a normal engine company or ladder. squads can operate as an engine or ladder company depending on what the IC needs or desires. They're equipped with ladder company tools and can perform any of the rescue ops that you would see the rescue companies perform... extrication, high angle, technical rescue ect... the squads are trained at the FDNY's rescue school, same as the 5 rescues.

    other than the fact they can and do operate as an engine company, what sets the squads apart from the rescues is that they are a hazmat company. in addition to the rescue pumper (squad) each company has a hazmat rig (bread truck) with a full compliment of hazmat, dikes, equipment, level A suits ect.

    squad see a lot of work and it's a beautiful thing.

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    In addition to the above, check the latest issue of Urban FF Magazine.
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    http://nyc.gov/html/fdny/media/video...es/index.shtml

    Engine, Truck and SOC videos at the bottom, and more specifically regarding the Squad:

    http://www.urbanfirefighter.com/inde...-the_gaps.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    In addition to the above, check the latest issue of Urban FF Magazine.
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    The primary reason for the reorganization of E18, E41, E61, E252, E270, and E288 into Squad Companies was for Haz Mat. In 1997 the city staged a large multi agency drill just north of the WTC on Greenwich Street. This drill was monitored by several federal agencies and simulated a chemical attack in Lower Manhattan, it showed that the City of NY and the FDNY were grossly understaffed/ equipped to deal with CBRNE incident of any significance.
    E41 had some additional firefighing duties as an enhanced engine and Sq 1 had additional firefighting and some technical rescue response capabilities, the remaining companies were regular engine companies now being tasked with Haz Mat duties. Not alot of NYC firefighters were interested in being Haz Mat guys (the job had a hard enough time trying to keep HM1 staffed), so they threw them a bone assigning them to working fires in a designated area where they would operate at the discretion of the Chief. Since then they have picked up some more training and equipment to assist them in other operations but their primary functions are still as an Engine, Haz Mat Technician Unit, and as additional manpower at fires.

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    jfTL41,

    What additional equipment do they carry? I am not so much interested in the haz-mat stuff but what additional tools do they carry?

    My questions come from trying to get a squad company formed on the volly FD where I live. We do not have a rescue, or a truck, and the reality is those duties need to be performed and I would like to get our second due engine set up to perform them and I am looking for ideas for additional equipment to try to obtain to make the mission better. We already carry additional hooks and forcible entry tools, althought I would like to add a second Irons and some New York Halliugan Hooks. We carry a fan, a Hurst combi tool, generator and lights. Give me some ideas of what additionally would help this function as I hope it will.

    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    jfTL41,
    My questions come from trying to get a squad company formed on the volly FD where I live. We do not have a rescue, or a truck, and the reality is those duties need to be performed and I would like to get our second due engine set up to perform them and I am looking for ideas for additional equipment to try to obtain to make the mission better.
    Thanks.
    Fyred.. check out Westampton NJ. They're a paid/volly combo department that runs a Squad and Engine
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    Dunkirk, MD's third engine is their "Squad" - which is the term they use in that area for what others might call a heavy rescue.

    Even though it's got a pump, etc, it is of "rescue pumper" configuration (lots of compartment space) and exists chiefly to handle rescue-type work. They don't run a truck, but there is usually one coming from a neighbor on any structure box.

    Sounds like you're already part way there. Just designate jobs by seat (if you have enough seats) and put the primary "truck" tools in one place, or in places where the appropriate personnel can easily get to them.

    Another option might be to pick up another vehicle - even a 4-door pickup with a utility box - load it with the appropriate tools and go. It could also serve as a wildland interface rig, and handle the "utility" jobs that come up, saving wear and tear on an engine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfTL41 View Post
    The primary reason for the reorganization of E18, E41, E61, E252, E270, and E288 into Squad Companies was for Haz Mat. In 1997 the city staged a large multi agency drill just north of the WTC on Greenwich Street. This drill was monitored by several federal agencies and simulated a chemical attack in Lower Manhattan, it showed that the City of NY and the FDNY were grossly understaffed/ equipped to deal with CBRNE incident of any significance.
    E41 had some additional firefighing duties as an enhanced engine and Sq 1 had additional firefighting and some technical rescue response capabilities, the remaining companies were regular engine companies now being tasked with Haz Mat duties. Not alot of NYC firefighters were interested in being Haz Mat guys (the job had a hard enough time trying to keep HM1 staffed), so they threw them a bone assigning them to working fires in a designated area where they would operate at the discretion of the Chief. Since then they have picked up some more training and equipment to assist them in other operations but their primary functions are still as an Engine, Haz Mat Technician Unit, and as additional manpower at fires.
    And as I understand it from several FDNY guys, these were 6 engine companies that were getting ready to be closed.

    The additional HAZMAT responsibilities allowed some Federal money to find it's way into NYC so they stayed open.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    Dunkirk, MD's third engine is their "Squad" - which is the term they use in that area for what others might call a heavy rescue.

    Even though it's got a pump, etc, it is of "rescue pumper" configuration (lots of compartment space) and exists chiefly to handle rescue-type work. They don't run a truck, but there is usually one coming from a neighbor on any structure box.

    Sounds like you're already part way there. Just designate jobs by seat (if you have enough seats) and put the primary "truck" tools in one place, or in places where the appropriate personnel can easily get to them.

    Another option might be to pick up another vehicle - even a 4-door pickup with a utility box - load it with the appropriate tools and go. It could also serve as a wildland interface rig, and handle the "utility" jobs that come up, saving wear and tear on an engine.
    We have no room for another rig, not even a pick-up. That is why I am working at turning this second due engine into a squad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    jfTL41,
    We already carry additional hooks and forcible entry tools, althought I would like to add a second Irons and some New York Halliugan Hooks. We carry a fan, a Hurst combi tool, generator and lights. Give me some ideas of what additionally would help this function as I hope it will.

    Thanks.
    My department has done the same thing with our second out "rescue" engine. Sounds like you've already got the tools you need, it's pretty much the same stuff we have.

    The next steps we did were riding assignments and training some of our guys that live further away (assuming you're home response as well) and rarely make the first out engine to get in the mindset of truck work more than stretching lines & squirting water.

    PM if you want a copy of our riding assignments SOG.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    We have no room for another rig, not even a pick-up. That is why I am working at turning this second due engine into a squad.
    Fair enough - it was just a thought. Sounds like you'll be dealing more with procedures, etc, than changes in equipment.

    Best of luck with your endeavor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Fyred.. check out Westampton NJ. They're a paid/volly combo department that runs a Squad and Engine
    Freyed, Definitely check this link out. This is pry the best response on here. When you click on the Squad company picture, you're able to get a 360 view of the rig and also you can click on the compartments of the rig and it opens up a new window showing whats inside and as well as listing each piece of equipment. Also a good line i read in there is that its not just whats inside the squad that makes it a squad, but also the additional NFPA training the guys have to go through and keep up to date to be squad members.

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    Fyred - I'll get some Links for Companies in this area that run them. We call them "Rescue Engines" since "Squad" is our Term for a Heavy Rescue.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Fyred - I'll get some Links for Companies in this area that run them. We call them "Rescue Engines" since "Squad" is our Term for a Heavy Rescue.......
    Okay let me make this even more convoluted. Our first out engine runs as a recue engine. It carries our extrication equipment, saws, vent fan, and extra handtools, as well as our multi-gas meter, a majority of our spare scba bottles, and a RIT pak.

    I am not trying to duplicate that. What I am trying to do is equip the second out engine to do more truck type work. Which I guess I had mistakenly believed the FDNY Squads were equipped to do.

    So now I guess I don;t know what the hell to call it!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Okay let me make this even more convoluted. Our first out engine runs as a recue engine. It carries our extrication equipment, saws, vent fan, and extra handtools, as well as our multi-gas meter, a majority of our spare scba bottles, and a RIT pak.

    I am not trying to duplicate that. What I am trying to do is equip the second out engine to do more truck type work. Which I guess I had mistakenly believed the FDNY Squads were equipped to do.

    So now I guess I don;t know what the hell to call it!!
    I believe back in the day, that would be called a quad. Essentially a quint, minus the stick.

    I bet this might get a thumbs up from Chief Harve if he see's it!!
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    Fact is, regardless of what you call it, your "squad" wont serve the purpose that other "squads" do across the country. I can take a heavy rescue and it can be called a heavy rescue, squad, rescue squad, etc.

    Point being: equip the truck to fit your needs and call it whatever the heck you want. Doesn't sound like yours needs to meet the requirements of the FDNY's.
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    I always called it a "service truck" -

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I always called it a "service truck" -
    This rig is a full Class A rated pumper so the title service truck doesn't really fit.

    I am leaning toward Quad, I like that. Although Engine 141 has a ring to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    jfTL41,

    What additional equipment do they carry? I am not so much interested in the haz-mat stuff but what additional tools do they carry?

    My questions come from trying to get a squad company formed on the volly FD where I live. We do not have a rescue, or a truck, and the reality is those duties need to be performed and I would like to get our second due engine set up to perform them and I am looking for ideas for additional equipment to try to obtain to make the mission better. We already carry additional hooks and forcible entry tools, althought I would like to add a second Irons and some New York Halliugan Hooks. We carry a fan, a Hurst combi tool, generator and lights. Give me some ideas of what additionally would help this function as I hope it will.

    Thanks.
    The squads have both the tools of an Engine company and the tools of the Truck company with out the compliment of ground ladders. (pretty much the stuff you mentioned above.)
    Unless they are on the initial ticket in their 1st or 2nd due area they act as a truck at the scene.

    They are pretty much the same as your Rescue Engine.
    The extra stuff they carry on top of that is for Hazmat, or technical rescues.

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    One of my previous departments took the 2nd due engine and converted it into what might have been (but wasn't) called a squad.

    We removed the hard suction, and replaced it with a second set of ladders. Added saws and truck hand tools, salvage covers, stokes and a ropes set for technical rescue.

    The supply and attack lines remained on the apparatus, so it could function as an engine if needed, but it's primary purpose was to perform truck work until the arrival of the auto-aid truck company.

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