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  1. #1
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Default Armed and Dangerous person involved in MVA with entrapment, what do you do?

    Question for how you would handle this situation:

    PD is chasing a vehicle whose driver is wanted to a reported burglary. Pt is believed to be Armed & Dangerous. They are chasing said person on a major interstate, where he and his potential passengers crash, entrapping all in vehicle.

    How would you handle a MVC w/entrapment involving a believed Armed & Dangerous person?

    In a recent situation, the 100% career Dept req a PD based ESU unit from two cities over to respond in to handle the extrication, at least that was what I was told, due to the A & D nature of the situation.

    Does your department have any special protocols for dealing with situations like this?
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  2. #2
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    Here the PD is gonna check the vehicle first. If they are armed and shooting, let 'em die
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?Ē (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

  3. #3
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    PD would safety the scene first, just like any other violent type call we go to.

  4. #4
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    I guess the answer is that it depends on how concious and cooperative the patients are. An unconcious body is not going to open fire so I would go to work with the police standing right by our side, and prepared to stop and move back if he wakes up. If he's concious, the answer is "it depends". There are so many variables to a situation like this, there is no one right answer. He could be cooperative or combative and the procedure will vary.

    Frankly, if he/they are combative or uncooperative and unreachable by police to disarm them, I frankly do not give a crap if they bleed out in the car. Their death would essentially be a suicide. I can't help someone that is hold himself hostage and in a situation like this, I would not lose sleep over it either.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  5. #5
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    Cool My .02

    Send in the P.D. aka "Coptometers"..... They get paid to absorb bullets, we don't. Face-to-face with the Sgt. and advice him that Pt. Care will start once the firearm/weapon is secured and the Pt. is restrained if needed.

    Stand-by, pop some popcorn and watch the show.....
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  6. #6
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    I agree with the previous posts here. Have the police secure the scene and then perform extrication as normal. No option to call somebody else around here. If the patient is still uncooperative, have the police restrain him the best that they can.

  7. #7
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    BTDT. No worries you will have a Sea of Blue LONG before you ever get to the scene. Routine call after that. Ours involved a Escaped Con barrel rolling our local officers cruiser while trying to make a felony stop. We cut the cop out first,then the con. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 09-16-2010 at 08:23 AM.

  8. #8
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    BTDT. No worries you will have a Sea of Blue LONG before you ever get to the scene. Routine call after that. Ours involved a Escaped Con barrel rolling our local officers cruiser while trying to make a felony stop. We cut the cop out first,then the con. T.C.
    Sort of figured that's how it will happen. If it is impossible to secure the weapon (maybe lying on the seat next to the victim barely outside arm's reach) I figure LEO's will be there with guns drawn while the extrication is taking place. If the victim is able to get the weapon the call would immediately change (after an interlude of loud noises) to a body recovery.
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  9. #9
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Don SCBA, toss in a few OC canisters, commence extrication
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  10. #10
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    Cops do rapid extrication. Surgeons repair damage. We just fall in the middle and keep them alive to the hospital.
    Stupid question. Scene Safety, Scene Safety, Scene Safety. While you all are talking during the first half hour of classes thats whats being taught. Cops secure the scene then we go in. Lines down, utilites come in. Pt dies to bad we go home to our families. No dead firemen or EMS because of heros. Period.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescuedawg View Post
    Cops do rapid extrication. Surgeons repair damage. We just fall in the middle and keep them alive to the hospital.
    Stupid question. Scene Safety, Scene Safety, Scene Safety. While you all are talking during the first half hour of classes thats whats being taught. Cops secure the scene then we go in. Lines down, utilites come in. Pt dies to bad we go home to our families. No dead firemen or EMS because of heros. Period.
    MAYBE in LI. COPS do NO extrication here,PERIOD. Not their own,not anybody else,zero, nix, nada. See post 7,thats how the majority of the free world does it. YOUR little section may vary. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 09-19-2010 at 02:59 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    MAYBE in LI. COPS do NO extrication here,PERIOD.
    Easy, tiger. I think he means the tendency of our Brothers in Blue to, umm, "perform rapid, aggressive extrication via the nearest opening without the use of tools" on suspects they were chasing who happened to have crashed during a chase.

    There's an episode of COPS last year where they actually all got together and rolled a flipped-over SUV back onto it's wheels so they could access the unresponsive driver/suspect. If it wasn't for the chase, it would have been a mechanical stabilization/extrication for sure. I couldn't believe the liability these officers from 2-3 different departments put themselves in, ON CAMERA.

  13. #13
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    I'm sure they weren't acting as rescuers gaining access to a victim. They were working as ****ed off police officers gaining access to a suspect hiding in a car.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  14. #14
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    Easy, tiger. I think he means the tendency of our Brothers in Blue to, umm, "perform rapid, aggressive extrication via the nearest opening without the use of tools" on suspects they were chasing who happened to have crashed during a chase.

    There's an episode of COPS last year where they actually all got together and rolled a flipped-over SUV back onto it's wheels so they could access the unresponsive driver/suspect. If it wasn't for the chase, it would have been a mechanical stabilization/extrication for sure. I couldn't believe the liability these officers from 2-3 different departments put themselves in, ON CAMERA.
    See Above post #11. If the door doesn't open by the handle,the Cops here don't deal with it.Break a window......MAYBE. REGARDLESS if they were in pursuit or NOT.FD'S MONITOR Police traffic and are prepared anytime there is a chase.I realize that is not the case everywhere but in our small communities Police and Fire are pretty "tight". T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 09-21-2010 at 08:44 AM.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    Easy, tiger. I think he means the tendency of our Brothers in Blue to, umm, "perform rapid, aggressive extrication via the nearest opening without the use of tools" on suspects they were chasing who happened to have crashed during a chase.

    There's an episode of COPS last year where they actually all got together and rolled a flipped-over SUV back onto it's wheels so they could access the unresponsive driver/suspect. If it wasn't for the chase, it would have been a mechanical stabilization/extrication for sure. I couldn't believe the liability these officers from 2-3 different departments put themselves in, ON CAMERA.
    READ his post CAREFULLY. That's NOT what I'm reading into it,and he's calling the rest of us STUPID. Having done a few of these,OUR scenes are QUITE secure before we start working,thank you.It's FUN to watch though once access is gained. T.C.

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