1. #1
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    Default Promotion Policy

    Brothers, if you could please send or post your promotional policy for company officers. I am comparing our policy with other departments to see if we are on the same page. Thank you.

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    We just completed our process for Capt. The process went as follows. If you want to know what certs you need then let us know.

    1. 100 question written test. You must score a 70 to pass. This was based on an EMT book, Essentials book, our policies/procedures, and fire officer book

    2. In basket exercise

    3. oral interview

    4. live burn
    Real men wear kilts. www.forourfallen.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Engine2308 View Post
    Brothers, if you could please send or post your promotional policy for company officers. I am comparing our policy with other departments to see if we are on the same page. Thank you.
    Qualifications (Captain)
    All promotions are internal
    5 years full time experience in municipal dept, 2 must be with the city
    Ca. State certified Fire Officer certificate
    Written test (Study Guide references given to candidates)
    Fire Simulator
    Role play
    In basket
    Interview
    All raters are from outside (full time) agencies, one rank above.

    List established
    Chief's interview
    One year probation if promoted.

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    I'm curious if any of your departments allow anyone to take a promotional test? What I mean by this is that in my old department to test for captain, you had to have been a firefighter for a minimum of 5 years (captain was the first officer position). To promote to battalion chief, you had to have been a captain for 5 years. At my current place you can test for captain if you've been a firefighter for at least 5 years, and you can test for battalion chief if you've been with the department for at least 7 years (notice there's no requirement on having spent time as a captain). What this can result in is a firefighter being promoted directly to battalion chief. I understand it's happened twice before, but not in quite a while.

    I'd personally like to change it, but it's been a long time contract item and out of my control.

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    Default Test

    We had one of our Firefighters take a stab at Fire Chief. He ultimately along with a Fire Commissioner didn't make the final cut.....but he participated.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
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    Thanks for the input. At our dept. you have to have 5 years in for Lt., 8 for Capt. with 3 years experience as a Lt. You must also have the required certifications. Chiefs are appointed positions and usually come from the higher ranking officers in the department. With the policies I see, if you pass everything, are you automatically in line for a promotion, even if you would not make a good officer based on track record? Who makes the final decision? How do you weed out candidates that cant lead? How would you grade leadership ability if that was part of the promotional exams? Should education have a weight in the process?

    Written Exam 25%
    Seniority 25%
    Panel Interview 25%
    Practical 25 %
    Top 3 scores are passed to the chief for promotion
    Do you see any problems with the system?
    Last edited by Engine2308; 09-16-2010 at 05:13 PM.

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    No testing here.

    For Lt:
    Completion of FO I
    Senior FF

    For Capt:
    Completion of FO II
    Senior Lt

    For BC:
    Completion of FO III
    Senior Capt

    Deputy Chief:
    By seniority from senior BC down until someone takes it

    Chief:
    Associate degree
    Seniority from Deputy Chief down until someone takes it.
    Last edited by gunnyv; 09-17-2010 at 03:11 PM. Reason: typos

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    Looks like all you have to be is the senior member. How does that affect the morale of guys with less seniority, knowing they really don't have a chance?
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    No testing here.

    For Lt:
    Completion of FO I
    Senior FF

    For Capt:
    Completion of FO II
    Senior Lt

    For BC:
    Completion of FO III
    Senior Capt

    Deputy Chief:
    By seniority from senior BC down until someone takes it

    Chief:
    Associate degree
    Seniority from Deputy Chief down until someone takes it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Engine2308 View Post
    Looks like all you have to be is the senior member. How does that affect the morale of guys with less seniority, knowing they really don't have a chance?
    It depends. Everyone assumes they will get an opportunity to get promoted in time to plus up their pension. The lazy ones like it. Some believe it is fair because it can't be influenced by politics or race. The most motivated junior members, the ones who put forth the most effort to learn the job, hate it.

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    I can see that. Its sad to think you can be on the job 15 years, not put forth much effort, and get promoted over a 10 year guy or girl that has put in work and tries to better themselves in their job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Engine2308 View Post
    I can see that. Its sad to think you can be on the job 15 years, not put forth much effort, and get promoted over a 10 year guy or girl that has put in work and tries to better themselves in their job.
    Government at its finest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock307 View Post
    Government at its finest.
    AMEN to that!

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    It is also sad to see guys that don't know a damn thing about real leadership get promoted due to having all of the certs and happening to have a good test day. There should be a middle ground but honestly after seeing every promotional test in the last few years grieved I am thinking that the seniority way is the only absolutely fair way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF4606 View Post
    It is also sad to see guys that don't know a damn thing about real leadership get promoted due to having all of the certs and happening to have a good test day. There should be a middle ground but honestly after seeing every promotional test in the last few years grieved I am thinking that the seniority way is the only absolutely fair way to go.
    I agree with the middle ground. Seniority being the only fair way, not so much. Why should we promote time if that is all it is. We all work with people that have time that haven't done a damn thing their whole careers. Im not saying promote certs and test scores either. You fall into the same boat there as well. Just trying to find a system that works for both ends of the spectrum.

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    My community is part of the Civil Service system (not all of the Commonwealth's 351 cities and towns are part of Civil Service) the Human Resources Division of the Department of Personnel Administration gives the exam.

    For every opening, HRD gives the community 4 names of those who passed the exam for that community or, in the case of a open statewide competitive exam (usually only for the rank of Fire Chief).

    The Personnel Department of each community can make their choice from the listing of names given.

    There are those who test well, but wouldn't know what to do on the fireground.
    There are those who would what to do on the fireground, but suck at testing.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Chief:

    Are the four names the HRD gives the community, the top four scores on the test or are other factors (seniority, college degrees, etc..) considered? Thank you.

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