1. #1
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    Default Calling all fire buffs

    I am doing some research for a new rescue engine (squad, pumper rescue,etc). I am looking for any fairly recent deliveries ('09 or newer) where the rig has both a 1000 gallon water tank, full heights compartments at least on one side & a low-style hose bed. I appreciate any help here.

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    1000 gallon tank AND a low-style hose bed? That's a tough one. Single rear axle or a tandem? There are several new rescue engines or squads around here, both single rear axles and tandems, with tank sizes up to 1000 gallons but none have what I would consider to be anything close to a low hose bed.

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    Another key thing you must let us know is HOW MUCH rescue equipment do you intend to carry on this truck? This can vary greatly on a "typical" rescue engine/squad. Also, how much engine equipment (e.g., amount/size of supply line, how many preconnects, how many and size of ground ladders, etc.). This info is key in trying to figure out how you can get it all on a chassis with a 1000 gallon booster tank and try to configure it with a low hose bed it possible.

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    You won't get a low hosebed, but otherwise, here you go.

    http://www.buddlakefire.org/apparatus

    Look at "Squad 56"
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    One option to consider would be an L shaped tank. It will get you a lower hosebed, but you will sacrifice some depth.
    Just a guy...

    Lieutenant - Woodbury, MN FD (Retired)
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    Disclaimer: The facts and opinions expressed above are mine, and mine alone, and are not intended to represent the views of any company I have ever worked for, past or present.

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    Can't do 2009, but how about 2005 with fulol height full depth compartments? 2000 gpm pump 1000 gallons of water? If interested let me know and I will send you pics.
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    Thank you all so far. Perhaps I need to elaborate. The primary function here is engine company duties. We already have a light rescue/mini pumper that is primary for vehicle rescues & related incidents. This pumper will respond secondary to rescues, mvc's, etc. Currently we are carrying 1500' 5" LDH, about 400' 3" & 400' 1 3/4" (in the bed). This works for our needs. I am a little familiar with the "L" or "T" tank idea & feel that is probably the only way to accomplish our requirements.

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    Thank you Chief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Can't do 2009, but how about 2005 with fulol height full depth compartments? 2000 gpm pump 1000 gallons of water? If interested let me know and I will send you pics.
    Absolutely, I welcome all ideas.

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    (One option to consider would be an L shaped tank. It will get you a lower hosebed, but you will sacrifice some depth. )

    The hose bed floor can be low, but the overall finished hose load will still be high.

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    we got an 09 KME only 500 gal tank full heigth and depth both sides...want pics let me know. Our hose bed is NOT low.
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    We looked for a similar package in our 2009 Rescue Pumper and found that we couldn't get a 750 gwt with a low hosebed and keep the truck short in length. The real skinny here is that, yes, you can get a fairly low hosebed, without the hose in it. Once you load most L-shaped tanks-hosebeds the top of the hose is too high to reach from the ground. We found that we really wanted to protect our personnel by having a low hosebed, but the real danger was in the deployment phase, not in the re-pack phase where we had no excuse not to take the time to do it safely. Having personnel climb onto the rear bumper in the winter to pull loads creates far more potential than repacking the ose in the station. In the end we went with a higher bed and mounted the nozzles and eds low for deployment from the ground.

    If you have to have both a large tank and a low hosebed/hose height you can always go longer!

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    Chief,

    If you look at 59-2, it has a 950 gal tank, with fairly safe and convenient cross lay set up, however I'm not sure how the rear hose bed is configured, but it might be worth a look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squad50FF View Post
    Chief,

    If you look at 59-2, it has a 950 gal tank, with fairly safe and convenient cross lay set up, however I'm not sure how the rear hose bed is configured, but it might be worth a look.
    Not sure if you are referring to the link I posted... but.

    It's a lower hosebed then 56, but those aren't full depth compartments.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    gwp026,

    Here are a couple of pictures of our 2005 HME Ahrens Fox Rescue Engine, I will e-mail you the rest. It has a 2000 gpm pump, 1020 gallons of water, 20 gallon Class A foam tank with a Hale Foam Logix system, 10kW generator and 4-1500 watt extendable lights and a 1500 watt eyebrow light. All the lighting is LED, except the headlights, and the siren is an e-Q2B. There are 5 SCBA seats, an interior EMS/junk cabinet, and what fire truck is complete without A/C and an AM/FM/WEATHER BAND/CD 4 speaker radio!!

    What I would do different with 20/20 hindsight.

    1) For using the hydraulic extrication hose reels I would have had either an electric or pto pump installed. Electric would probably be far cheaper and easier to plumb. Why? Ease of operation, speed of getting a tool into operation, less maintenance for the frontline tool.

    2) I would place the reel above the side compartments in a small coffin style compartment to get them out of the compartment to open up that space for tool storage. If the pump was electric I would mount that up there too.

    3) I would look at mounting more tools where they are more accessible instead of in compartments. While being in a compartment keeps the tools cleaner it makes them slower to get to and slows down firefighters going to work. I believe axes and the Irons should be mounted near the riding positions and with the new straps and brackets this can be done safely.

    4) Remote control deck gun. Yes they can be pricey, but I bet far less than the cost of a firefighter falling off the top of the truck.

    5) I would not waste an entire compartment on SCBA spare bottles. There are far more creative ways to do that.

    All in all it is a good rig with plenty of storage space.
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    Last edited by FyredUp; 09-19-2010 at 10:03 PM.
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    Well.....since he has no e-mail here we go with more pics.
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    More of E-142.

    Happy now Chenzo ya freaking nit picker!
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    Last edited by FyredUp; 09-19-2010 at 11:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    More of E-141
    Ermmm.... This is no Mack CF............................ Therefore, it CAN'T be more of E-141


    She is a nice looking rig though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Not sure if you are referring to the link I posted... but.

    It's a lower hosebed then 56, but those aren't full depth compartments.
    ChiefKN,

    I was referring to a Co. near gwp026. Thanks for the info anyways. Sorry for the confusion

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    More of E-142.
    Definately 15 lbs in a 5 lb sack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwp026 View Post
    Thank you all so far. Perhaps I need to elaborate. The primary function here is engine company duties. We already have a light rescue/mini pumper that is primary for vehicle rescues & related incidents. This pumper will respond secondary to rescues, mvc's, etc. Currently we are carrying 1500' 5" LDH, about 400' 3" & 400' 1 3/4" (in the bed). This works for our needs. I am a little familiar with the "L" or "T" tank idea & feel that is probably the only way to accomplish our requirements.
    The hose you have specified will require approx. 81 cubic feet of space with an approx. weight of 2171 pounds. 1000 gallons of water will require approx. 133.6 cubic feet and weigh about 8345 pounds, not including tank.

    Frame rails on class 8 chassis generally run about 38" high. Add 2" for a tank cradle and you will be starting about 40" from the ground before you have added anything.

    Since you want full depth (24") compartments the area you can use for storage of water and hose will be 48" wide on a 96" wide body (max. legal width on most roads.) The water tank will only be about 46" wide for clearance.

    With a 10' body (doesn't include pump compt.) and 1" clearance your water tank will be 118" long x 46" wide,will contain about 23.5 gallons per inch of height and would end up being 42.5" tall (Actually more since I have not allowed for material thickness or baffles). Already, the top of the tank is 82.5" from the ground and you don't even have hosebed decking. Since the hose can be stored in the full width between the side compartments the hose load will be about 3.33 cubic feet per inch of height thus, about 24" in height. for an estimated total of 106.5".

    That is the basic process for the calculations. You can probably handle the rest but here are the estimated gallon and cubic feet per inch height figures:

    12' long body Water 28.28 gal/in. Hose 4.0 cu.ft./in.
    14' long body Water 33.06 gal/in. Hose 4.67 cu.ft./in.

    Bear in mind that these are simple estimates. Many things can change these numbers. Examples that could raise the height are: Ladders stored in tank pass through, discharge w/tank pass through, rear suction, special depth rear compartment.

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    Hey Fyred,

    It seems that worrying about mounting tools in a more accessible location should be a moot point when it appears you have a step ladder strapped to your roof ladder. Never know when you may have to throw it in a hurry...

    And I couldnt tell from the pics, but does that truck have traditional crosslays in addition to the bumper lines? Only reason I ask is becuase in my (limited) expirience with rubber hose, it sucks interior.

    I am a huge fan of the Ahrens-Fox body. I share as much distaste for a HME cab. We have one HME/A-F truck in our fleet and the cab is cheaply built while the body is top notch. Just preference I guess. Oh and PowerArc warning lights...I wont even go there. I would rather just turn on the 4 way flashers.

    Good looking truck though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    Definately 15 lbs in a 5 lb sack.
    Seriously, what the heck are you talking about?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Hey Fyred,

    It seems that worrying about mounting tools in a more accessible location should be a moot point when it appears you have a step ladder strapped to your roof ladder. Never know when you may have to throw it in a hurry...

    I don't agree with the step ladder being there and will move to have that changed very soon.

    And I couldnt tell from the pics, but does that truck have traditional crosslays in addition to the bumper lines? Only reason I ask is becuase in my (limited) expirience with rubber hose, it sucks interior.

    Traditional crosslays? If by that you mean cloth jacketed, no it doesn't. It does have 2-300 foot 2 inch crosslays made of rubber. We have been using rubber hose now for over 10 years and have had no complaints or problems moving it. The biggest reasons we have it are no need for thousands of feet of spare hose, and rapid reload so guys can go back to work.

    I am a huge fan of the Ahrens-Fox body. I share as much distaste for a HME cab. We have one HME/A-F truck in our fleet and the cab is cheaply built while the body is top notch. Just preference I guess. Oh and PowerArc warning lights...I wont even go there. I would rather just turn on the 4 way flashers.

    Different strokes I guess. We love the rig. It is smooth and comfortable to ride in. Has a great turning radius. Heats and cools well. Great visibility and plenty of room inside.

    As far as the Power Arcs go we have not had a single problem with them. We were skeptical at first and talked to the President of the company and he sent us a complete replacement unit to have in stock free of charge to calm our fears. The Power Arcs are very bright and eye catching. We like them very much.


    Good looking truck though.

    Thanks. We get compliments on it all the time. makes us proud.
    Most of all, it does everything we designed it to do...so far anyways.
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    Default 15 lbs in a 5 lb sack

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Seriously, what the heck are you talking about?
    Nothing derogatory. You have a lot of equipment stored in a relativly small space. Means good packaging! Like me packing the car for a trip verses my wife. I can always get two more suit cases in than she can.

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