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    Default Response time opinions

    According to the article here, it says there was no firehouse in the area and response time caused the additonal houses to catch fire. I've looked it up and according to Google Maps there are 3 firehouses that are a 10 minute drive at the speed limit from this location.

    I live in Clarksville and it's a city which is very spread out, suburban area. Obviously everyone would like to see the shortest response time possible but I'm wondering what the opinion would be as to whether a 10 minute response time is "acceptable" and if it's fair to say "there is no firehouse in the area" when there is a station within 5 miles.

    My thought is that in an area like this you're probably not going to get any better than that due to the financial realities of creating a new fire station when there's already one 5 miles away.

    My thought is that it's a reporter who instead of just saying the fire spread that quickly had to throw something in there that sounded like blame.

    Please share your opinions and if you like give me an idea of what your maximum response time is for your first due area. I'm trying to get started with my county's volunteer department so I'm working on trying to get a deeper understanding of all the various concepts involved with the world of firefighting.

    Thanks
    Eric

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    Our SOP is out of the house in 60 seconds. Depending on the call our rescue is first out on everything simply because its smaller and faster than the engines. Rescue driver and duty officer are on the rescue and engine driver and senior firefighter are on the engine. Has worked very well. Response times obviously vary depending on location in the city or county but the longest response time will take about 6 to 9 minutes.

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    common thing in news people to only tell part of the story. Eventhough the area where the fires happened may have a Clarksville TN address, it more than likely is not in the Clarksville City Limits (I am familiar with Clarksville). 2/3's of my county has my career FD city address and if we were responsible for it we would put about 6 VFD's on a very limited run volume. To Monday morning quarterback a run on a article written as badly as this one when there is nothing else to go one isn't condusive to learning. I have had runs I have been on over the past 20+years chopped to bits in the media

    Correcting myself here.... According to google it is in the corp. limits of Clarksville. If that be the case and it is beyond the 5 mile rule, their insurance bills must suck. Heck, Guthrie Ky would be straighter at least!
    Last edited by Capt387; 09-23-2010 at 11:55 AM.
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down? (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

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    If you are "just starting" out , why not concerate on learning the basics first and leave the politics/ planning to the officers ?

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    Fire houses are located and spaced as per the fire load for the area they serve. A residential area will have usually a 4 to 8 minute respond time where an industrial area will have much less. This also means additional fire houses would be needed.

    Plain Jane residential have fire houses more spread out as the fire load isn't that heavy.

    You can't have a house located on the corner every other block or two. It is too cost prohibitive.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGregory View Post
    According to the article here, it says there was no firehouse in the area and response time caused the additonal houses to catch fire. I've looked it up and according to Google Maps there are 3 firehouses that are a 10 minute drive at the speed limit from this location.

    I live in Clarksville and it's a city which is very spread out, suburban area. Obviously everyone would like to see the shortest response time possible but I'm wondering what the opinion would be as to whether a 10 minute response time is "acceptable" and if it's fair to say "there is no firehouse in the area" when there is a station within 5 miles.

    My thought is that in an area like this you're probably not going to get any better than that due to the financial realities of creating a new fire station when there's already one 5 miles away.

    My thought is that it's a reporter who instead of just saying the fire spread that quickly had to throw something in there that sounded like blame.

    Please share your opinions and if you like give me an idea of what your maximum response time is for your first due area. I'm trying to get started with my county's volunteer department so I'm working on trying to get a deeper understanding of all the various concepts involved with the world of firefighting.

    Thanks
    Eric
    Eric,

    This is what I found on google in about 1o minutes - ALL INFORMATION IS BASED ON GOOGLE MAPS:

    The location of the fire was indeed in the City limits of Clarksville

    There are (3) fire station within 5 miles of the incident-
    #9 is 2.4 miles
    #10 is 3.0 miles
    #8 is 4.5 miles

    #7 is 6.6 miles
    #6 is 6.8 miles
    #1 is 7.1 miles
    #5 is 7.5 miles
    #3 is 7.8 miles
    #2 is 8.3 miles
    #4 is 9.0 miles

    When all of this is mapped out, Clarksville most likely needs another fire station in the extreme northeast area of the city, but all in all, it's not that bad.

    A larger contributing factor is most likely that Clarksville does not send enough people to reported structure fires on the initial alarm. It appears that station 9 and 10, the 2 closest to the fire, ride with 3 man companies.

    Did you let everyone in school do you homework for you?
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Robert,

    when you look at the street views on Google there isn't anything matching up.
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down? (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Eric,

    This is what I found on google in about 1o minutes - ALL INFORMATION IS BASED ON GOOGLE MAPS:

    The location of the fire was indeed in the City limits of Clarksville

    There are (3) fire station within 5 miles of the incident-
    #9 is 2.4 miles
    #10 is 3.0 miles
    #8 is 4.5 miles

    #7 is 6.6 miles
    #6 is 6.8 miles
    #1 is 7.1 miles
    #5 is 7.5 miles
    #3 is 7.8 miles
    #2 is 8.3 miles
    #4 is 9.0 miles

    When all of this is mapped out, Clarksville most likely needs another fire station in the extreme northeast area of the city, but all in all, it's not that bad.

    A larger contributing factor is most likely that Clarksville does not send enough people to reported structure fires on the initial alarm. It appears that station 9 and 10, the 2 closest to the fire, ride with 3 man companies.

    Did you let everyone in school do you homework for you?
    Robert, I found and posted the fact that there are 3 firehouses in a relatively short distance from that location. Thank you for reiterating that fact.

    Your last comment there comes off as snide and rude. I wasn't aware that there was something inherently wrong with someone who is new to something and who has spent time researching the subject to ask a question of those more experienced when they still have a question or when they would like to hear the opinion of those who have real world experience.

    Thank you again for the information you posted, the smartass comment at the end just baffles me.

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    If you are "trying to get started with your countys volunteer FD" you might want to grow some thicker skin. Again for someone just "starting out" maybe you need to get a good grasp of the basics first before you get involved with something better suited to chief officers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGregory View Post
    Thank you again for the information you posted, the smartass comment at the end just baffles me.
    Don't spend a lot of time in the firehouse huh?

    I am a fireman. I excel at certain things.....being a smartass is one of them.

    And just for the record, you said there was "A" fire station within 5 miles and 3 within a 10 minutes drive. IMO, 10 minutes of driving time does indeed classify as "not having a fire station within the immediate area." Ten minutes of driving is most likely a 12-15 minute response time by the time you factor in dispatching and turnout time.

    For a paid, city department operating 10 stations, a 12-15 response from the time someone calls is too long.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 09-23-2010 at 05:25 PM.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt387 View Post
    Robert,

    when you look at the street views on Google there isn't anything matching up.
    Hey Cap. That's strange. I tried a few street views as well and didn't see any stations either. Who knows?

    I tried in yahoo maps as well, it it doesn't even show the street where the fire occured.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Hey Loo, let the newbie's figure it out by themselves.

    They will be in for a rude awaking if they ever get in a fire house on 24 hour tours! They will love the fresh meat!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Don't spend a lot of time in the firehouse huh?

    I am a fireman. I excel at certain things.....being a smartass is one of them.
    You sound like the Tennessee version of me!
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down? (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Hey Cap. That's strange. I tried a few street views as well and didn't see any stations either. Who knows?

    I tried in yahoo maps as well, it it doesn't even show the street where the fire occured.
    Tried my area of Ky and a few other parts of the country I know and the street view is pretty well on spot. I used to sell a older gentlemen equipment that he resold in east TN. One day I had him on the phone telling him I was looking at a pic of his house. He said "My house IS NOT on the internet". After I described it to a T along with his equipment trailer and where he parked it in his drive, I spent the next 30 miutes claming him down!
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down? (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Don't spend a lot of time in the firehouse huh?

    I am a fireman. I excel at certain things.....being a smartass is one of them.

    And just for the record, you said there was "A" fire station within 5 miles and 3 within a 10 minutes drive. IMO, 10 minutes of driving time does indeed classify as "not having a fire station within the immediate area." Ten minutes of driving is most likely a 12-15 minute response time by the time you factor in dispatching and turnout time.

    For a paid, city department operating 10 stations, a 12-15 response from the time someone calls is too long.
    Thank you, that's exactly the kind of answer I was honestly looking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    If you are "trying to get started with your countys volunteer FD" you might want to grow some thicker skin. Again for someone just "starting out" maybe you need to get a good grasp of the basics first before you get involved with something better suited to chief officers.
    I appreciate the advice, I'm spending a lot of time on the basics but I haven't even really started in the training program at this point. It's more me scouring for any resouce I can to learn more at this point.

    The only reason I asked the question was it seemed the reported was taking a dig at the fire service in general and I was curious of the approximate response times for the area of the fire were considered acceptable. I have family that live within a few blocks of that location so the curiosity about it was probably as much from the "Concerned Citizen" side of things as it was from the "I'm looking forward to becoming involved in the fire service.

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    You guys are probably right about the "Grow thicker skin" comments, It's been a while since I've had to be low man on the totem pole in just about anything so I may have forgotten the crap that comes along with it. I really do appreciate each of you who took the time to respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGregory View Post
    You guys are probably right about the "Grow thicker skin" comments, It's been a while since I've had to be low man on the totem pole in just about anything so I may have forgotten the crap that comes along with it. I really do appreciate each of you who took the time to respond.
    This is one of the fields that is truly the case. Thicker the better
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down? (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGregory View Post
    You guys are probably right about the "Grow thicker skin" comments, It's been a while since I've had to be low man on the totem pole in just about anything so I may have forgotten the crap that comes along with it. I really do appreciate each of you who took the time to respond.
    I have to hand it to you...

    For a guy that had his teeth kicked in, you handled it well.

    Everything is a learning experience.

    Carry on sir, just don't over-think your positon.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinKnight View Post
    I have to hand it to you...

    For a guy that had his teeth kicked in, you handled it well.

    Everything is a learning experience.

    Carry on sir, just don't over-think your positon.
    I agree with the Knight!!
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    EGregory.. keep in mind that in the firehouse, the breakfast of champions is sarcasm, lunch is criticism, dinner is ballbusting... smartassed comments and lampooning are served as coffee and dessert!
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 09-23-2010 at 11:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Don't spend a lot of time in the firehouse huh?

    I am a fireman. I excel at certain things.....being a smartass is one of them.
    Ha. Like I have said; We are a Downtown Engine Company, not a Church Group.

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    And just for the record, you said there was "A" fire station within 5 miles and 3 within a 10 minutes drive. IMO, 10 minutes of driving time does indeed classify as "not having a fire station within the immediate area." Ten minutes of driving is most likely a 12-15 minute response time by the time you factor in dispatching and turnout time.

    For a paid, city department operating 10 stations, a 12-15 response from the time someone calls is too long.
    People get the fire protection they pay for. If the citizens were (probably are now) concerned, they would have figured out that they built their pretty and new subdivision without the FD being able to meet an NFPA 1710 manning within 8 minutes, as the standard states. But instead, they were probably more concerned about the quality of parks, and how close the grocery store is. Soccer moms rarely think about fire protection, or lack there of till their house catches fire.
    ~Drew
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    People get the fire protection they pay for. If the citizens were (probably are now) concerned, they would have figured out that they built their pretty and new subdivision without the FD being able to meet an NFPA 1710 manning within 8 minutes, as the standard states. But instead, they were probably more concerned about the quality of parks, and how close the grocery store is. Soccer moms rarely think about fire protection, or lack there of till their house catches fire.
    HA you got that right. It also doesn't help that our current city government consists of a real estate developer for a mayor and several real estate agents on the city council. The result is that it's a very developer friendly form of government and many times profitability outweighs common sense in my opinion.

    Hopefully we'll see some of that change in the upcoming election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Don't spend a lot of time in the firehouse huh?

    I am a fireman. I excel at certain things.....being a smartass is one of them.

    And just for the record, you said there was "A" fire station within 5 miles and 3 within a 10 minutes drive. IMO, 10 minutes of driving time does indeed classify as "not having a fire station within the immediate area." Ten minutes of driving is most likely a 12-15 minute response time by the time you factor in dispatching and turnout time.

    For a paid, city department operating 10 stations, a 12-15 response from the time someone calls is too long.
    Probably why we get along so well,hehe T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGregory View Post
    HA you got that right. It also doesn't help that our current city government consists of a real estate developer for a mayor and several real estate agents on the city council. The result is that it's a very developer friendly form of government and many times profitability outweighs common sense in my opinion.

    Hopefully we'll see some of that change in the upcoming election.
    They should understand the value of a buck. If they really want to do something, have them put a hydrant every 500 feet, build a stations about 4 miles apart, buy enough fire equipment to allow the fire department to lower the Class to a 3 and hire about 200 firefighters. Then they will really have something.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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