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    Default How do you explorer officers punish your explorers

    Hey guys my name is Keionte and I am an explorer Sgt. with peach county fire department. I want to know how some of you officers punish your explorers or if you are even allowed to.

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    they make us run.Where i come from.

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    I don't seem to recall "punishment" being a part of any Scouting program...

    Explorers who don't perform as they should don't earn privileges. There's no need to "punish" them; at best they might lose those privileges.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    oh ok that is what we do.....

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    well some of them get to far out of line.....

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    we do push ups.

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    You'll probably find that a large majority of fire department explorer posts have virtually nothing to do with scouting other than the name and the insurance coverage. Discipline, whether proactive or reactive, is required in the fire service.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    You'll probably find that a large majority of fire department explorer posts have virtually nothing to do with scouting other than the name and the insurance coverage. Discipline, whether proactive or reactive, is required in the fire service.
    Like it or not, Explorers are a Scouting program and are supposed to follow appropriate scouting guidelines... "Punishment" like running laps or push-ups isn't an effective (de)motivator nor, IMHO, does it effectively encourage discipline.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Like it or not, Explorers are a Scouting program and are supposed to follow appropriate scouting guidelines...
    Yes, on paper. The NFPA says a lot of things we should do too.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    "Punishment" like running laps or push-ups isn't an effective (de)motivator nor, IMHO, does it effectively encourage discipline.
    I disagree. I think a lot of police explorer posts would disagree as well. Active discipline is 10x more effective than passive be-nice discipline.

    The day the BSA starts paying attention to how we do things, I might start paying attention to them. It's a mutual deattachment. My interaction with the BSA was once a year. I filled out the roster and faxed them paperwork. I didn't hear from them and they didn't hear from me for the other 364 days per year. I'm quite confident I'm not alone.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Yes, on paper. The NFPA says a lot of things we should do too.
    Not just "on paper" but in reality. Exporing is a subdivision of the Boy Scouts of America. The BSA is the ultimate governing body -- not just a voluntary advisory body like the NFPA.

    I disagree. I think a lot of police explorer posts would disagree as well. Active discipline is 10x more effective than passive be-nice discipline.
    Behavioral research disagrees with that theory pretty soundly. Punishment is sufficient for creating drones. It's a lousy method for making leaders.

    The day the BSA starts paying attention to how we do things, I might start paying attention to them. It's a mutual deattachment. My interaction with the BSA was once a year. I filled out the roster and faxed them paperwork. I didn't hear from them and they didn't hear from me for the other 364 days per year. I'm quite confident I'm not alone.
    The presumption of the Learning for Life BSA subsidiary is that career based programs don't require the level of institutional support as traditional Scouting. If you don't ask, they aren't going to offer.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Not just "on paper" but in reality. Exporing is a subdivision of the Boy Scouts of America. The BSA is the ultimate governing body -- not just a voluntary advisory body like the NFPA.
    Yes. But they're not in the same reality as what I believe is most of the fire and police explorer programs that exist today are in. Like I said, the only things most police and fire explorer programs have to do with the BSA is the title and insurance coverage. Whether it is right or wrong, it's reality. The BSA seems to accept this reality as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Behavioral research disagrees with that theory pretty soundly. Punishment is sufficient for creating drones. It's a lousy method for making leaders.
    Some phd that's never been here and probably doesn't know a haligan from a harpoon. This again steers right back to what someone says is official and what is really reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    The presumption of the Learning for Life BSA subsidiary is that career based programs don't require the level of institutional support as traditional Scouting. If you don't ask, they aren't going to offer.
    Yup. And admittitaly, I never ask. Because I don't need or want anything that they offer. I know what they offer and can do and its really not of any use to us. We have a LOT of stuff to do and not a lot of time to do it in. If the kids wanted to be in boy scouts, they would join one of the local troops. Many of of our kids left the troops and joined us for a reason.



    For what it's worth, here are some stats. Obviously something is working right.

    Total active adult firefighters is 45. Of that total, 12 of them are a product of the explorers. 6 of those are or have been line and chief officers, myself included. 8 more of those 45 are parents, siblings, or friends of those 12 that wouldn't have joined otherwise and are now great active firefighters. So that's nearly half the department that wouldn't exist if it weren't for our very successful explorer program.

    Many of our past explorers that didn't stay in town after school have gone on to be volunteers in other towns or states, or are career firefighters in other towns.

    Now, I'm not trying to shoot down the BSA. They're a great organization. They have their place and we have ours. It's a very loose connection.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Like it or not, Explorers are a Scouting program and are supposed to follow appropriate scouting guidelines... "Punishment" like running laps or push-ups isn't an effective (de)motivator nor, IMHO, does it effectively encourage discipline.
    Not true... Learning for Life has been it's own entity for a few years. They have branched-off from the Boys Scout and govern themselves.

    The insurance may be purchased "piggy backing" on the Scouts but they run and govern themselves.

    Now back to the original question; when I was very actively involved in Explorers our punishment was to do push-ups, run, lose privileges, suspension and ultimately expulsion. I'm our Explorer Head Advisor and right now we don't have any Explorers because all our last group moved away. That's one negative about having it on a Military Installation.

    The number 1 thing that we punished for was grades. As far as acting-up or acting a fool during training that was hardly an issue because if I had to stop the training then they would take over... Do it once and it'll get dealt with real quick.

    My advice, just have a "step punishment" similar to how we did it. The key is to punish quick (meaning don't let it slide) and make sure the punishment matches the crime. With the step punishment they know what happens next time they disobey... No surprises...

    Lemme know how and if this works fer ya... Stay safe...
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

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    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    Not true... Learning for Life has been it's own entity for a few years. They have branched-off from the Boys Scout and govern themselves.
    With all due respect, they are a quasi independant entity with their own structure but they're still a wholly owned sibsidiary of the BSA.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    [QUOTE=mikeyboy;1208945]Not true... Learning for Life has been it's own entity for a few years. They have branched-off from the Boys Scout and govern themselves.



    Thanks mikeyboy.

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    I have found the best way to straighten out an unruly explorer is to have them go explain to the chief why you are upset with them. They usually never make that mistake again.
    Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

    Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.

    Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.


    alisha.fern@firehousemail.com

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    ok thanks....

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    Default ...The Answer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Keionte Tate View Post
    Hey guys my name is Keionte and I am an explorer Sgt. with peach county fire department. I want to know how some of you officers punish your explorers or if you are even allowed to.
    Too easy...and the answer is....


    WATER BOARDING!...works 60% of the time...EVERY TIME.
    "FBHF"

    "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "What do Cops and Firefighters have in common? They BOTH WANT To be FIREFIGHTERS!"

    "I love the Police Officers have firefighters to look up to..."

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    ok thanks....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbobbyhill View Post
    Too easy...and the answer is....


    WATER BOARDING!...works 60% of the time...EVERY TIME.
    That was a joke...please don't water board anyone...ha ha
    "FBHF"

    "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "What do Cops and Firefighters have in common? They BOTH WANT To be FIREFIGHTERS!"

    "I love the Police Officers have firefighters to look up to..."

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    ok........

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    when i punish my explorers, they run the tower in full bunker, then have to drag a hose line 100 feet
    Firefighters need not fear fire, but give it all their respect.

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    Default What?

    How old are the Explorer Sergeants and officers?

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    Exploring is not baseball. There is no 3 strikes your out deal.

    If an Explorer needs "punishing"....they are simply not an Explorer anymore.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    exploring cadet leaders shouldn't be able to punish anyone, seeing how they lack just as much as line experience as the others.
    Benton Fire District Four
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    Caddo Parish Fire District 1
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    When things get rough, just say:
    Acabo de perder cinco minutos de su vida.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    when i punish my explorers, they run the tower in full bunker, then have to drag a hose line 100 feet


    Your explorers? You are still wet behind the ears Wille!

    If they can't go with the flow and do the job, then they are dismissed.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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