1. #26
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    Cool Explorers vs. Cadets

    "My" post isn't run this way but some other local posts are. They chose it to give their cadets more experience. Those posts have a lot more serious cadets (they don't call them explorers as to not be confused as LFL participants).
    Explorers are different from Cadets as I understand it. Explorers as you know have an age limit and Cadets may or may not. Explorers are High School aged young adults and Cadets are college aged adults.

    My department just joined with one of the local Colleges and has (3) FF 1 Cadets. Our Cadets are able to function and go on the same calls that the rest of us go on. The differences are their ages, level of training, liability (the College has assumed all liability, I asked) and the insurance associated with them.

    Most departmens that have this charge the cadets anually/biannually for insurance coverage.
    Our Cadets have $1 million insurance coverage provided by the College. You may want to think about seeing how feasible this is since the College already has to have insurance, especially for those Colleges that have Fire Academies.

    Few departmets run this way, but it's usually for departments with low staffing that really need extra hands on the fire grounds.
    We brought the Cadets in to help them since in Cali there must are a certain amount of hours that must be met before you can get your CSFM FF 1 Cert.

    The cadets go through rigorous training and lots of paperwork before entering any IDLH environment. So far in my area there has not been any cases of any cadets being injured on a fire scene.
    This is what I was saying earlier about the differences in training levels. Many Explorers are young adults that come into the Program/Post with no experience and are trained by the Department. In many Departments, once an Explorer hits 18, they are rolled into a Paid/On Call Status (if they have such a Program/Status) or they are rolled into a Reserve Status. A Cadet is an adult that has enrolled into a College Fire Academy, graduated and needs training hours to complete their FF 1 Certs. Our Explorer training is based on the CSFM Volunteer FF Level training. Check the CSFM's website for the differences in training if you want to know the differences. Our Explorers have (3) Levels (Entry, Level 1 and Level 2), when they make Level 2 they will receive their CSFM Volunteer FF Cert which with additional training and experience they can earn their FF 1 Cert.

    Since you 1st posted, I've been researching both Programs and see very different Programs. Cadets are usually associated with the Military (the FS is paramilitary so it makes sense to have Cadets in the FS) and are studying to be an Officer and are held to a standard than regular Recruits. In the FS they are College FF 1 Candidates who need time/exposure to the Job.

    Thanks for challenging me and posting something I had to research.
    Last edited by mikeyboy; 02-24-2011 at 08:27 PM.
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

  2. #27
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    LAFD Crew 3 is a Volunteer Type II Handcrew managed by the Los Angeles Fire Department. Crew 3 is currently organized as a Wildland Cadet Post.
    I personally know a few guys that have done this and it is not an Explorer position, it is a Cadet position. Explorers and Cadets, especially in LAFD and LA Co FD are totally separate. A HUGE difference is that the Cadets are paid and Explorers are not. There are obviously additional differences that have been discussed earlier.
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    Explorers are different from Cadets as I understand it. Explorers as you know have an age limit and Cadets may or may not. Explorers are High School aged young adults and Cadets are college aged adults.

    My department just joined with one of the local Colleges and has (3) FF 1 Cadets. Our Cadets are able to function and go on the same calls that the rest of us go on. The differences are their ages, level of training, liability (the College has assumed all liability, I asked) and the insurance associated with them.



    Our Cadets have $1 million insurance coverage provided by the College. You may want to think about seeing how feasible this is since the College already has to have insurance, especially for those Colleges that have Fire Academies.



    We brought the Cadets in to help them since in Cali there must are a certain amount of hours that must be met before you can get your CSFM FF 1 Cert.



    This is what I was saying earlier about the differences in training levels. Many Explorers are young adults that come into the Program/Post with no experience and are trained by the Department. In many Departments, once an Explorer hits 18, they are rolled into a Paid/On Call Status (if they have such a Program/Status) or they are rolled into a Reserve Status. A Cadet is an adult that has enrolled into a College Fire Academy, graduated and needs training hours to complete their FF 1 Certs. Our Explorer training is based on the CSFM Volunteer FF Level training. Check the CSFM's website for the differences in training if you want to know the differences. Our Explorers have (3) Levels (Entry, Level 1 and Level 2), when they make Level 2 they will receive their CSFM Volunteer FF Cert which with additional training and experience they can earn their FF 1 Cert.

    Since you 1st posted, I've been researching both Programs and see very different Programs. Cadets are usually associated with the Military (the FS is paramilitary so it makes sense to have Cadets in the FS) and are studying to be an Officer and are held to a standard than regular Recruits. In the FS they are College FF 1 Candidates who need time/exposure to the Job.

    Thanks for challenging me and posting something I had to research.
    Not disagreeing with you Mikey, but just FYI: Cadets can be ANYTHING. Unlike Explorers (which obviously is a specific program as part of Learning for Life) Cadet is just a term and not an organization, and it's upto teach department how they structure their Cadet groups. I know of several departments which work like you have been talking about, Cadets being older, usually college students, etc. However, I also know of many that run their Cadets like explorers, 13/14+ etc.

  4. #29
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    Ahhhhhh, ok... Very cool... I see clearly now, thanks for the education. Reckon it's kinda like that "Tender" stufff in ICS. Here we like our water tendered, as opposed to the rest of the Country that like their steaks tender and water tanked. LOL.

    Maybe we can include these ranks in ICS so that everybody can get on the same page as us..... LMAO. Just kidding.....
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    Ahhhhhh, ok... Very cool... I see clearly now, thanks for the education. Reckon it's kinda like that "Tender" stufff in ICS. Here we like our water tendered, as opposed to the rest of the Country that like their steaks tender and water tanked. LOL.

    Maybe we can include these ranks in ICS so that everybody can get on the same page as us..... LMAO. Just kidding.....
    Our department likes our water tanked then tendered
    Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

    Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.

    Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.


    alisha.fern@firehousemail.com

  6. #31
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    Old thread, but I've been looking over the Explorer forum, since I've recently been asked to help with my current department's explorer post, & thought I'd add my experience as an explorer, now that I'm years down the road.

    My explorer program had various levels; Explorer I, Explorer II & Cadet. You had to meet certain criteria to advance through the ranks, and Cadet was actually a badged position with the FD, albeit a non-paid position, somewhere between explorer & volunteer. Those who made it to the Cadet rank, however, had a 100% success rate in getting hired with the FD (for as long as I kept track of it).

    I was able to get my FFI & FFII certs through the explorer program & had some great experiences as an explorer. We would help patrol on New Years each year & we were often able to work in the supply warehouse and in delivering supplies to the various stations which was a good way to meet firefighters on the department. We were also used as fire watch after larger fires, with an on-duty crew in command, but usually "manning" the support RV, while we walked around the fire ground looking for hot spots. (At 3 am, I'm sure as an explorer, I was much more excited about being there than the on-duty crew was ). I can't imagine the FD putting any of our explorers inside of an IDLH, including the cadets. They did do a great job in including us in whatever activities they could. I did get my first-ever nozzle time as an explorer... I got to put out a palm tree fire!

  7. #32
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    From what what I've been told, and this stands for the state of Virginia, ( I don't know how other states work this ). Under the age of 18, You can't ride along unless you have the following certs: CPR/DISEASE CONTROL, HAZMAT AWARENESS, NIMS 100, 200, 700, 800, Radio Operations, and fire instructor 1. OR you can get EMT-B if that class happens to be held before fire 1. If you are over 18, then you can ride along with just a few certs.

  8. #33
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    My chief always told me "How are you going to learn if you don't get in there and do something?" You got to be able to experience how to use the equipment that the senior fireman are able to use. I understand that you will be a senior fireman one day and you will learn how to use the equipment, but why not learn while you are young? You'll already know how to use the equipment beforehand and thats just less training and more fun!

  9. #34
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    better safe than sorry
    Last edited by EP48; 05-05-2013 at 02:03 AM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by EP48 View Post
    My chief always told me "How are you going to learn if you don't get in there and do something?" You got to be able to experience how to use the equipment that the senior fireman are able to use. I understand that you will be a senior fireman one day and you will learn how to use the equipment, but why not learn while you are young? You'll already know how to use the equipment beforehand and thats just less training and more fun!
    I see you are in Pa- hopefully your chief and line officers are aware of the fact that Pa. Child Labor Laws PROHIBIT you from operating any kind of power tools (engine operated, electric or hydraulic) during emergencies or in training, and also they prohibit you from entering an IDLH environment.....I'd hate to see the OSHA man fine your department.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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