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    Question Helmet decorating

    I'm getting a traditional-style helmet (should be arriving today, in fact), but I want to personalize it with my own decoration. I was inspired by an image I saw at thefirestore.com:



    My helmet is yellow. I have the flag triangles and the triple trim, which comes in a 28"-long strip. I was originally going to pretty much just duplicate what they did with that helmet, but now I'm wondering if it might look better (or at least as good) if I put one blue triangle with stars on each side, in the segments on either side just behind the shield, rather than having them both on the left side.

    I also think the triple trim strip is long enough and thin enough that I could just wrap it around the ribs and keep it in one long strip all the way around, rather than cutting it into segments to fit between the ribs. Thoughts on how that would look?

    Also, if anyone has any tips on removing the tetrahedrons that will already be on the new helmet, I'd love to hear it. The guy at the store (I went to thefirestore.com in person) told me it was easy, they'll just peel right off, using Goo-gone if any adhesive remains. I just want to double-check that...Is he right about that? (And just to point out, the flag triangles and the triple trim are all reflective, so I'm adding more reflectivity than I'm removing, just for the record.)

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    Tetrahedrons come right off as long as you can get one of the corners to pull up. Had to replace mine a while back when they developed a haze after getting too warm. It went pretty straight forward, I washed my helmet with a mild soap water solution before I applied the new ones because my helmet was so dirty. I didn't even check to see if any adhesive residue was left before I washed it. They're still on there so I guess I did a good enough job. I used the mild soap because I didn't want to chance destabilizing the composite material of my helmet.

    I would make sure before you go and do any customization that the powers that be approve of the changes you want to make to your helmet, especially if the helmet is department issued.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJR512 View Post
    I'm getting a traditional-style helmet (should be arriving today, in fact), but I want to personalize it with my own decoration. I was inspired by an image I saw at thefirestore.com:



    My helmet is yellow. I have the flag triangles and the triple trim, which comes in a 28"-long strip. I was originally going to pretty much just duplicate what they did with that helmet, but now I'm wondering if it might look better (or at least as good) if I put one blue triangle with stars on each side, in the segments on either side just behind the shield, rather than having them both on the left side.

    I also think the triple trim strip is long enough and thin enough that I could just wrap it around the ribs and keep it in one long strip all the way around, rather than cutting it into segments to fit between the ribs. Thoughts on how that would look?

    Also, if anyone has any tips on removing the tetrahedrons that will already be on the new helmet, I'd love to hear it. The guy at the store (I went to thefirestore.com in person) told me it was easy, they'll just peel right off, using Goo-gone if any adhesive remains. I just want to double-check that...Is he right about that? (And just to point out, the flag triangles and the triple trim are all reflective, so I'm adding more reflectivity than I'm removing, just for the record.)
    First check your department rules, some won't allow the decals at all. Other than that, the flag goes on as you see it in your picture. It is your helmet, do as you like, but the point is to look like a flag. The triple trim will need to be trimmed between the ribs or it will most likely fall off. It needs good solid contact and going around the ribs will not be a good idea. Goo gone will work, just make sure it is dry and clean before putting the new ones on.
    Jason Brooks
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrescue View Post
    but the point is to look like a flag.
    And putting it on a helmet is technically a violation of the United States Code, Title 4 aka "The Flag Code."

    If the objective is to show your patriotism I suggest that a properly displayed flag does it better and more respectfully. Instead of putting something that suggests a flag on your lid where it's guaranteed to be defaced and damaged, wear a plain, unadorned -- no eagles, 343's, or witty sayings) -- flag somewhere on your gear where it is reasonably protected and can be washed when it's soiled.

    USC Title 4, Chapter 1 -- The Flag

    8. Respect for flag

    No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

    (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
    (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
    (c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

    (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
    (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
    (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
    (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
    (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
    (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

    (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
    (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning
    Last edited by DeputyMarshal; 09-30-2010 at 05:17 PM. Reason: fix formatting
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    for most departments that I know of, there are no limits.....although I am sure if someone 'over did it' there would be some issues or maybe even a standard/policy adopted.......that said, I am a 'plain is best' or 'less is best' type.....in addition to the regulation tets I have one sticker, the American flag....in it's whole - attack direction - on the right side.......we are professionals and need to always show respect for our country and flag.....having a broken-up 'skull cap' doesn't do it , from my perspective

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    As all of our helmets are department issued, we've established that only vinyl can be added to "personalize" ones helmet - no paint.

    I've never really had any problem removing such lettering or decals.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    I prefer pink spray paint. With sparkles.

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    its just going to get burnt up

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    Even if you buy it and it belongs to you, I would check with the Chief of Department, to be sure that I can wear a helmet that is so decorated as you want to do.


    It may not be what the Chief of the Department would allow or approve!


    There are standards that departments go by and uniformity for all members, as well.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Default Pink HelmetS!

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I prefer pink spray paint. With sparkles.
    Actually...I was out sick one shift and the guys at my (former) dept took my helmet off my gear rack and replaced it with an old "salad bowel" helmet. WHICH they painted pink and then drew some nice roses on it AND...added some sprinkles. Whilst all this was going on, my real lid was in the dishwasher.....no respect for anyone's gear. I went almost all shift the next shift without a lid because they wouldn't let me have my normal one. Anyway, pink helmets...exist.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrescue View Post
    First check your department rules, some won't allow the decals at all. Other than that, the flag goes on as you see it in your picture. It is your helmet, do as you like, but the point is to look like a flag. The triple trim will need to be trimmed between the ribs or it will most likely fall off. It needs good solid contact and going around the ribs will not be a good idea. Goo gone will work, just make sure it is dry and clean before putting the new ones on.
    Thanks for the advice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    And putting it on a helmet is technically a violation of the United States Code, Title 4 aka "The Flag Code."

    If the objective is to show your patriotism I suggest that a properly displayed flag does it better and more respectfully. Instead of putting something that suggests a flag on your lid where it's guaranteed to be defaced and damaged, wear a plain, unadorned -- no eagles, 343's, or witty sayings) -- flag somewhere on your gear where it is reasonably protected and can be washed when it's soiled.
    Or you retire the decal when/if it gets damaged.

    Great help again, as always.

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    I got the helmet today, and decided to do it like in the photo I posted at the start. So both blue/star triangles are on the left side (my left, as I'm wearing it).

    I also had gotten two 2" decals (also reflective), both die-cut in the shape of the St. Florian's Cross*, one filled with the American flag, the other filled with the Maryland flag.

    I had originally planned to put these on the back brim (don't know if there's a technical term for that part), but I didn't realize that there was a molded-in pattern there. So I don't think the stickers will adhere well to that area. So now I guess I'll put one on each side, but I'm not sure if it matters which side I put which flag decal on. Or does it not make any difference at all. My instinct says to put the American flag on the left side (same side as the blue/star triangles), and the Maryland flag on the right side. Any advice on that?

    * By "St. Florian's Cross" I am referring to the shape that most firefighters mistakenly refer to as a Maltese Cross.
    Last edited by JJR512; 09-30-2010 at 12:27 AM.

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    Nice job! You get to disrespect the American flag twice and the Maryland flag once all on the same lid!
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJR512 View Post

    I also think the triple trim strip is long enough and thin enough that I could just wrap it around the ribs and keep it in one long strip all the way around, rather than cutting it into segments to fit between the ribs. Thoughts on how that would look?

    I think that would look like hell, to be perfectly honest. Trim in to fit in between the ribs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Nice job! You get to disrespect the American flag twice and the Maryland flag once all on the same lid!
    There is nothing in the law you quoted (4 USC 8) that says what I'm doing is wrong or illegal. That law says what one should not do with a flag. I'm not doing anything with a flag. A sticker with an image of part of the flag on it is not a flag.

    I have a couple of T-shirts that I bought at Walmart that have various images of the flag on them. Clothes get dirty when you wear them; that's expected. Yet this isn't a violation of (e), because it's a shirt, not a flag. Nor is it a violation of (d), because again, it's a shirt, not a flag.

    Well, a sticker that has an image of part of the flag on it isn't a flag anymore than those T-shirts are flags.

    If you think I'm wrong, then as a loyal, patriotic, flag-loving American, I think you have a duty to report me to the authorities. You would probably want to start with http://baltimore.fbi.gov/. Go ahead, call them. I dare you. I'm absolutely not joking. Report me. In other words: Put up, or shut up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    I think that would look like hell, to be perfectly honest. Trim in to fit in between the ribs.
    I did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJR512 View Post
    There is nothing in the law you quoted (4 USC 8) that says what I'm doing is wrong or illegal. That law says what one should not do with a flag. I'm not doing anything with a flag. A sticker with an image of part of the flag on it is not a flag.
    Go back and reread subparagraphs (g) and (j).

    I have a couple of T-shirts that I bought at Walmart that have various images of the flag on them. Clothes get dirty when you wear them; that's expected. Yet this isn't a violation of (e), because it's a shirt, not a flag. Nor is it a violation of (d), because again, it's a shirt, not a flag.
    Subparagraph (d) and (g). Citing Walmart as an ethical standard? Now that's funny...

    Well, a sticker that has an image of part of the flag on it isn't a flag anymore than those T-shirts are flags.
    Subparagraph (g) again.

    If you think I'm wrong, then as a loyal, patriotic, flag-loving American, I think you have a duty to report me to the authorities. You would probably want to start with http://baltimore.fbi.gov/.
    What's the point? It's only illegal in DC. (3, $100, 30 days, or both) Otherwise it's perfectly legal to be a schmuck. It's legal to burn the flag, too, anywhere in the world. That doesn't make it right or respectful.

    Go ahead, call them. I dare you. I'm absolutely not joking. Report me. In other words: Put up, or shut up.
    I hope you stretched and limbered up before all that posturing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Go back and reread subparagraphs (g) and (j).
    I read the entire section. The entire section (4 USC 8) is irrelevant because it discusses what one shouldn't do with a flag. An image of a flag is not a flag. At no point in this thread have I ever once mentioned that I'm doing anything at all with a flag; therefore, nothing I have discussed in this thread is a violation of any part of 4 USC 8.

    However, just for kicks, I'll play along...

    (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
    (g) is completely irrelevant. I am not placing or attaching any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature to the flag image or any part of it.

    (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
    It is true that I am not a "fireman", because I am EMS-only. However, as an EMS provider, I am an active member of a volunteer fire department; therefore, I believe that I am lumped together with people who specifically are firefighters, and am therefore subject to the same benefits, etc. I consider the helmet to be a part of the uniform, at least for the purpose of (j). I consider a sticker of a flag image to be equivalent enough to a "patch" for the purpose of (j). True, a sticker is not, by strictest definition, a "patch", but I wonder if stickers had even been invented when this law was written? For the spirit of this law, I don't think it really matters what form of technology is used to affix the flag image to a uniform.

    Subparagraph (d) and (g). Citing Walmart as an ethical standard? Now that's funny...
    Walmart was not cited as an ethical standard. It was cited as the place where I bought a T-shirt. However, it is a large American company, and one that many people like to pick on. If they were selling illegal products, I'm sure they would have gotten in trouble for it.

    Subparagraph (g) again.
    "Again" is correct. It's already been addressed and debunked.

    What's the point? It's only illegal in DC. (3, $100, 30 days, or both) Otherwise it's perfectly legal to be a schmuck. It's legal to burn the flag, too, anywhere in the world. That doesn't make it right or respectful.
    We're discussing 4 USC 8 here, that's what's been quoted and referred to so far. This section is not limited to just Washington, DC.

    Furthermore, aside from the fact that anything I've discussed does not violate the letter of 4 USC 8, I believe I'm also not doing anything that violates the spirit of the law. That is to say that in my opinion, what I have discussed here is not disrespectful to the flag, or more importantly, to the United States of America. But that is my opinion, one which I am more than willing to put to the test by twelve of my peers, which leads me to the final point...

    I hope you stretched and limbered up before all that posturing.
    That wasn't posturing. I am absolutely serious and not joking. I challenge and dare you to attempt to report me to the appropriate authorities. Seriously. Do it. PM me if you'd like my full name and address to provide to the authorities. I'll even give you photos to use as evidence.

    I'm not joking. If you really, genuinely, honestly believe that I'm violating 4 USC 8, report me. Put up or shut up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJR512 View Post
    I'm not joking. If you really, genuinely, honestly believe that I'm violating 4 USC 8, report me. Put up or shut up.
    Did you miss my reply the first time?

    What's the point? It's only illegal in DC. (3, $100, 30 days, or both) Otherwise it's perfectly legal to be a schmuck. It's legal to burn the flag, too, anywhere in the world. That doesn't make it right or respectful.
    "Report you" for what? Disrespecting the flag (and rationalizing it to claim otherwise) isn't a crime. Knock your socks off.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Did you miss my reply the first time?
    Did you miss the part where I quoted your reply? If I quoted your reply, do you really need to ask if I missed it? I read it, and posted my reply to it knowing full well what you said.

    "Report you" for what? Disrespecting the flag (and rationalizing it to claim otherwise) isn't a crime. Knock your socks off.
    What do you mean, report me for what? What I said you should report me for was contained in the same sentence wherein I invited you to report me: "I'm not joking. If you really, genuinely, honestly believe that I'm violating 4 USC 8, report me. Put up or shut up."

    If a federal law says you shouldn't do something, then doing that something is breaking the law.

    So please...Put up, or shut up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJR512 View Post
    If a federal law says you shouldn't do something, then doing that something is breaking the law.

    So please...Put up, or shut up.
    Come back when you have more than a 3rd grader's grasp of the law.

    Until then, stop wasting my time.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJR512 View Post
    Did you miss the part where I quoted your reply? If I quoted your reply, do you really need to ask if I missed it? I read it, and posted my reply to it knowing full well what you said.


    What do you mean, report me for what? What I said you should report me for was contained in the same sentence wherein I invited you to report me: "I'm not joking. If you really, genuinely, honestly believe that I'm violating 4 USC 8, report me. Put up or shut up."

    If a federal law says you shouldn't do something, then doing that something is breaking the law.

    So please...Put up, or shut up.


    Calm down sonny. He is just busting your ba!!s!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Come back when you have more than a 3rd grader's grasp of the law.

    Until then, stop wasting my time.
    You're wasting your own time. I've already asked you twice to put up or shut up. That's two times I've given you the opportunity to go away, but you keep coming back for more. You're wasting your own time.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJR512
    Put up, or shut up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnee View Post
    Calm down sonny. He is just busting your ba!!s!!
    You're right...And thanks to the Ignore feature of vBulletin, I no longer need to worry about any of the worthless crap coming from that particular dumbass. If he actually had the guts to even try reporting me for the crime of which he's accused me, he might have been worthy of some respect, but I guess he didn't have the balls for it, or the good sense enough to know when he should just go away. Now I won't have to worry about that piece of **** anymore, at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJR512 View Post
    If he actually had the guts to even try reporting me for the crime of which he's accused me,
    Just exactly how dense is this kid? Would someone please draw him a picture and explain using small words that disrespect isn't criminal? Lucky for him, neither is stupidity!
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

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