Emergency! helmets

[NobodyAnymore]

Anyone know for a fact what brand/model fire helmet was worn in Emergency?

None of the modern-style helmets I see at thefirestore.com look exactly like it. The modern-style helmets there all have rear brims that slope downwards, but the helmets in the show had rear brims more like the ones on traditional-style helmets.

[IronsMan53]

MSA Topguard

[NobodyAnymore]

MSA Topguard

Are you sure about that? The MSA Topguard doesn't really look like it, nor is it a firefighting helmet: http://www.msanorthamerica.com/catalog/product795.html

Unless they've completely changed the product with that name at some point in the last 30 years, which could be possible, I suppose.

EDIT: I see that Wikipedia says it's the MSA Topgard...Maybe the product with this name really has changed that drastically since then.

[NobodyAnymore]

No, you're right, back then, the Topgard was a fire helmet. Sometime between then and now, they completely redesigned and repurposed it as a construction helmet. At least, according to Wikipedia, anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_Safety_Appliances (last section, MSA Fire Helmets).

Thanks!

[CaptOldTimer]

No, you're right, back then, the Topgard was a fire helmet. Sometime between then and now, they completely redesigned and repurposed it as a construction helmet. At least, according to Wikipedia, anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_Safety_Appliances (last section, MSA Fire Helmets).

Thanks!

The MSA Top Guard, aka melt-a-way, was designed as it was when it first came out back in the 1960's. It was modeled after another MSA helmet which was made of a different material, and the top guard replaced it.

LA County Fire Department, as well as other large and small departments in the USA used this type of helmet. I have several hanging up in my house.


I have a black helmet that got so hot one time that the color appeared to be gray, before turning back to a dull looking black. In fact you can hold it up toward the sun and see the sun through the shell.

There were Bump Helmets, safety helmets, made that may have had Top Guard in it's name, but they were not firefighting helmets!!

[NobodyAnymore]

The MSA Top Guard, aka melt-a-way, was designed as it was when it first came out back in the 1960's. It was modeled after another MSA helmet which was made of a different material, and the top guard replaced it.

LA County Fire Department, as well as other large and small departments in the USA used this type of helmet. I have several hanging up in my house.


I have a black helmet that got so hot one time that the color appeared to be gray, before turning back to a dull looking black. In fact you can hold it up toward the sun and see the sun through the shell.

There were Bump Helmets, safety helmets, made that may have had Top Guard in it's name, but they were not firefighting helmets!!

I don't think they had a non-FF helmet back then that was also called Topguard, but the helmet they make now under that name is definitely not a FF helmet. It's a construction helmet. They changed the product with that name some time ago, apparently. I don't know why.

It's interesting that you can see through the shell. I realize that yours was originally gray, but oddly enough, "transparent" was one of the colors available for the old FF-style Topguard (again, that's just according to Wikipedia). I don't know why. I also suspect that in order to make it clear, they would have had to change the plastic formula a bit, and it may not have been certified, or as safe, for FF use.

Since they no longer make that style anymore, I guess I'd have to look to eBay or something if I wanted one...

[CaptOldTimer]

I don't think they had a non-FF helmet back then that was also called Topguard, but the helmet they make now under that name is definitely not a FF helmet. It's a construction helmet. They changed the product with that name some time ago, apparently. I don't know why.

It's interesting that you can see through the shell. I realize that yours was originally gray, but oddly enough, "transparent" was one of the colors available for the old FF-style Topguard (again, that's just according to Wikipedia). I don't know why. I also suspect that in order to make it clear, they would have had to change the plastic formula a bit, and it may not have been certified, or as safe, for FF use.

Since they no longer make that style anymore, I guess I'd have to look to eBay or something if I wanted one...

Hey Pal, I am going to argue this with you, as you seem to like to do this on other threads you have posted. Even having one locked down.

But did you live or work back in the 1960's??

I did and yes they had them.

Also go back re-read what I said about my old Black helmet getting hot. I have been around for a long time and have never seem a clear or transparent helmet shell!

Provide a undoctored photo!



You quote "Wikipedia" just like crowbar use to do. Are you him??

[NobodyAnymore]

Hey Pal, I am going to argue this with you, as you seem to like to do this on other threads you have posted. Even having one locked down.

But did you live or work back in the 1960's??

I did and yes they had them.

Also go back re-read what I said about my old Black helmet getting hot. I have been around for a long time and have never seem a clear or transparent helmet shell!

Provide a undoctored photo!



You quote "Wikipedia" just like crowbar use to do. Are you him??

If you want to start an argument, that's fine, but just so long as you remember that it's you who started it, not me. I wasn't arguing with you. I didn't state as a fact that you were wrong about anything.

I did say that I did not think MSA had a non-FF helmet back then (the 1960s and '70s) called the Topgard, but I did not state as a fact that this was the case. There's a difference. I don't know one way or the other for a fact. That being said, I must admit that it doesn't make much sense to me that MSA would make two very different kinds of helmets under the same model name at the same time, but then again, just because it doesn't make sense to me doesn't mean it's not true. Stranger things have definitely happened.

So if you're stating as a fact that back then, MSA made both a FF and non-FF helmet under the name Topgard, fine. I'll take your word for it, at least until I find credible evidence to the contrary.

And no, I do not consider information on Wikipedia to be credible evidence, not when there are no references to credible external sites that back it up. In the case of the Wikipedia article on MSA, the article says that the Topgard used to be a FF helmet, but at some point was redesigned as a construction helmet; this seems to imply that prior to the redesign, it was not a construction helmet at all. But there are no references provided to back that up. That's why I did not say you were wrong; that's why all I did was say what it said there. Now I don't really know who you are anymore than I know who the person is that wrote that article, so in theory, I have no more reason to trust you than that unreferenced article. But you seem to have a certain amount of respect around here, and that's good enough for me. So again, if you're stating as a fact that back then, MSA made both a FF and non-FF helmet under the name Topgard, fine. I'll take your word for it.

About your black helmet: When I was reading your reply in the email notification, I saw the in your quote of me where I referred to your gray helmet, and even before you said anything, I knew that was a mistake. I know you said your helmet was black. Guess I had a bit of a misfire between my brain and my fingers. Sorry about that.

About the clear helmet, of course I don't have an undoctored photo. As I said, that was based only on what I read at Wikipedia ("The topgard helmet during the 1970s came in several different colors, black, red, green, yellow, white, and oddly transparent"). I don't know if it's true or not. Honestly, I don't know how it could be done, or why it would be done. Now you say you've never seen one. I believe you. I believe you've never seen one. That doesn't necessarily mean they didn't exist, though. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. I didn't state as a fact that they did exist; all I stated was that I read on Wikipedia that they made them.

My name is Justin J. Rebbert. I go by the nickname JJR512 in online forums. That is the only name I have ever used in forums, except for in a few that required the use of real full names. But what difference does it make what my answer is? You'll believe what you want to believe.

[CaptOldTimer]

Justin, I am truely sorry I bothered or reponded back to you.

Rest assure, I won't again!

Have a good life.

[Jonnee]

After reading this, I am going to post one thing and a photo.

The MSA Topguard has been around for close to 50 years. I am not sure the exact date but it was the helmet my department used when I came on the job, which has been over 37 years.

Here is a photo of one of those helmets, which I did wear when I was a fireman in a Truck Co.

[SPFDRum]

Well Justin J. Rebbert, you are quickly making an *** out of yourself. Have a nice day.

[NobodyAnymore]

Justin, I am truely sorry I bothered or reponded back to you.

Rest assure, I won't again!

Have a good life.

Well Justin J. Rebbert, you are quickly making an *** out of yourself. Have a nice day.

Thanks! Same to both of you as well!


Jonnee, yeah that's the one I remember...Well not directly, just from the show. I can't quite tell from that angle, but does it have a leather front mounted to the front? Do you recall or know if that's how they all were, or if that's how it was in the show? I have a vague recollection that in the show, they had simple sticker fronts, but I could very well be wrong...I watch that show almost every day, too, on RTV, but I can't quite picture it clearly in my mind.

There's a picture of the current Topgard at MSA's website (http://www.msanorthamerica.com/catalog/product795.html). I still don't know why they changed it, it seems like it might have made more sense to just give a new name to the completely different newer design.

[Jonnee]

Thanks! Same to both of you as well!


Jonnee, yeah that's the one I remember...Well not directly, just from the show. I can't quite tell from that angle, but does it have a leather front mounted to the front? Do you recall or know if that's how they all were, or if that's how it was in the show? I have a vague recollection that in the show, they had simple sticker fronts, but I could very well be wrong...I watch that show almost every day, too, on RTV, but I can't quite picture it clearly in my mind.

There's a picture of the current Topgard at MSA's website (http://www.msanorthamerica.com/catalog/product795.html). I still don't know why they changed it, it seems like it might have made more sense to just give a new name to the completely different newer design.

The helmet I posted is a MSA Topguard model. It has a 4 inch leather front attached by 4 screws.

It also has an elastic chin strap.

The ones on the TV show were of the same type but the numbers were not cut in but I think they were applied. Maybe have been a stencil but not stick ons.

The helmet you show in your link is a topgard, not a Topguard. A big difference. Don't get them confused.

[CanadianFyrTrks]

The Topguard really hasn't changed much in the past 30 years then, I wear one now (very very popular in the Patch up here!)

[NobodyAnymore]

The helmet I posted is a MSA Topguard model. It has a 4 inch leather front attached by 4 screws.

It also has an elastic chin strap.

The ones on the TV show were of the same type but the numbers were not cut in but I think they were applied. Maybe have been a stencil but not stick ons.

The helmet you show in your link is a topgard, not a Topguard. A big difference. Don't get them confused.

Ah, so there's the Topgard and Topguard. Wow, that's stupidly confusing on MSA's part. No wonder I got mixed up. Sorry about that!

The Topguard really hasn't changed much in the past 30 years then, I wear one now (very very popular in the Patch up here!)

Are you saying that the Topguard firefighting helmet is still a current model that MSA produces now? Do you know where someone can get them? Because I looked (not real hard, to be honest, after I came to believe that it was not a current product) and couldn't find them. I might like to get one if they're still making new ones.

[Jonnee]

Ah, so there's the Topgard and Topguard. Wow, that's stupidly confusing on MSA's part. No wonder I got mixed up. Sorry about that!


Are you saying that the Topguard firefighting helmet is still a current model that MSA produces now? Do you know where someone can get them? Because I looked (not real hard, to be honest, after I came to believe that it was not a current product) and couldn't find them. I might like to get one if they're still making new ones.

Nothing stupid. Two different types of safety helmets, one spelled one way and the other another. The Topguard fire helmet is not in production. That is probably why MSA dropped the "U" and call the safety helmet what they are calling it now.

As far as the MSA Topguard fire helmets, they may have been a large supply sitting in a warehouse somewhere that cities, towns, burgs and other places are buying for their members as they are probably cheap in cost and they serve well. Might be here CanadianFyrTrks is, there isn't any regulation or their town don't really care if there is one.

You can probably buy a used one on ebay if you want one.

[CanadianFyrTrks]

Are you saying that the Topguard firefighting helmet is still a current model that MSA produces now? Do you know where someone can get them? Because I looked (not real hard, to be honest, after I came to believe that it was not a current product) and couldn't find them. I might like to get one if they're still making new ones.

Nope, I use one in the petroleum industry. It's the new Topguard

[Jonnee]

Nope, I use one in the petroleum industry. It's the new Topguard

What you are wearing is an industrial type helmet. Its not a fire helmet as JJR512 seems to think.

The MSA Topgard is the proper name of that helmet.

It comes in various colors. This is what the helmet looks like.

[NobodyAnymore]

What you are wearing is an industrial type helmet. Its not a fire helmet as JJR512 seems to think.

The MSA Topgard is the proper name of that helmet.

It comes in various colors. This is what the helmet looks like.

Thought, as in the past-tense version of think. You cleared up my confusion about that a few posts back, and I thought I had expressed that I now understood it.

I was asking about CanadianFyrTrks's firefighting helmet because he wrote "Topguard" not "Topgard", which further illustrates that I am no longer confused about the two different models and their names, and also reinforces my earlier opinion that these two different helmets being given almost the same name is "stupidly confusing". I mean here's a guy that owns one kind of helmet but he's calling it by the other kind's name, that's how easy it is to get them mixed up. But that's just my opinion.

[NobodyAnymore]

I sent an inquiry directly to MSA. This was my question:

I have a question about the history of an MSA product. It is my understanding through online research that back in the 1960s-70s, MSA produced a fire helmet under the Topguard or Topgard name. I understand that currently, MSA produces a safety (non-FF) helmet under the Topgard name. Is the name of the older fire helmet correctly spelled Topguard or Topgard? If it is Topgard, why was the design changed from a fire helmet to a safety helmet? On the other hand, if the old fire helmet is correctly spelled Topguard, was there also a Topgard safety helmet in production at the same time? When was the Topgard safety helmet first introduced?

This was their response:

At some point in the mid-1980s, NFPA-1971 changed significantly enough that we could no longer offer the Topgard as a structural firefighting helmet. We've continued to market its cap & hat versions, though, as our industrial Topgard helmet. Regardless of the model, each version was part of the Topgard "family." This model was launched in the 1960s.