1. #1
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    Default Available ladder manufacturer with zero failures

    Does one exist? To be fair I guess I have to give a definition of a failure.

    For this topic lets say the ladder is up in the air and it comes down without operator intervention. It could crash down, come down slowly, break in half, etc.

    Also, if you are going to mention a failure please note if it was determined to be a failure related to manufacturing or improper use by the operator (heavy winds, overloaded, ice) as the manufacturer has no control over improper use.

    Thanks.

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    I have never seen of or heard of a Sutphen aerial ladder failure. Make their own aluminum ladders with Huck bolts... I don't think anyone else does that.

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    I believe LTI and E-One both fit your criteria. Of course some of the issue comes to who owned what. We know about E-One owning Bronto when a pre-Eone Bronto failed (due to improper non-factory repair work?IIRC). LTI have been mounted on numerous other builders aerial apparatus and again, IIRC none have failed.

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    I think its unfair to lump the Bronto in with the rest of E-one's aerials. Their aerial ladders are a vastly different product than the Bronto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I think its unfair to lump the Bronto in with the rest of E-one's aerials. Their aerial ladders are a vastly different product than the Bronto.
    Agreed. As I said, this is why you must define the parameters, for skeptics point fingers without telling the whole story.

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    I agree with you, just needed to preempt all the aluminum haters.

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    i belive Stanley falls into this class

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    93Cobra- You are correct. Sutphen has never had an aerial failure.

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    Smeal, Metz to add two. T.C.

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    Talking

    Maxim would be another. :=}

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    Nope. I was surpised to see this, Maxim has had one. The information below is from: U.S. Fire Administration/Technical Report Series
    Aerial Ladder Collapse Incidents
    USFA-TR-081/April 1996

    East Chicago, IN--Ju1y~ 17, 1994
    A100 foot steel Maxim ladder, originally constructed in 1959 and remounted on a 1980 Mack chassis, collapsed during a ladderpipe operation at a large tire fire, injuring one firefighter. The ladder was extended approximately 50 to 70 feet at a 35 degree elevation angle and rotated approximately 15 degrees to the side of the truck. The ladder had not been inspected for at least two years. The ladder pipe was shut down just before the collapse occurred, and a firefighter was in the process of ascending the ladder to survey the scene and reposition the nozzle. The firefighter was approximately 50 feet up the ladder when it buckled in the first fly section just above the bed. The firefighter was seriously injured and the aerial ladder was destroyed. The falling ladder became entangled in power lines which absorbed some of the impact. The power lines had been de-energized at the request of the Incident Commander.

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    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Yup. Thats where the Maxim information came from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmcatee1 View Post
    Nope. I was surpised to see this, Maxim has had one.
    Don't be, it seems Maxim's had some major issues defying gravity. Certainly more than one, I have a few pics in my files when we showed our city council why we needed to replace our bent 80 ft. 1980 Maxim (destroked from 100 ft).

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    35 degrees is too low for a ladder pipe operation on a 200 lb ladder no matter who made it.

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    I should add at 50-70 feet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Maxim would be another. :=}
    Where you gonna buy a NEW one? Hehe T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffp20 View Post
    35 degrees is too low for a ladder pipe operation on a 200 lb ladder no matter who made it.
    Good job on the addendum. My SIMPLE philosophy on ladder pipe operations is keep the ladder as short as possible to do the job. In these parts in the winter this is CRITICAL because after several hrs operation below zero you MIGHT NOT be able to retract it. The shorter,the stronger. T.c.

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    Currently, is LTI still making ladders? Are they selling outside of ALF?

    Would you consider writing a bid spec to exclude manufacturers that have had a factory defect ladder failure on a ladder produced in the last 10 years?

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    That would for sure knock out lots of manufacturers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Cobra View Post
    That would for sure knock out lots of manufacturers.
    Name 'em,T.C

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFPD2005 View Post
    Currently, is LTI still making ladders? Are they selling outside of ALF?

    Would you consider writing a bid spec to exclude manufacturers that have had a factory defect ladder failure on a ladder produced in the last 10 years?
    LTI is supposedly offering the line for sale outside of ALF. I've heard this from people I trust, but not seen anything from ALF/LTI to validate this.

    I think the tough one there is to determine a factory defect vs. a failure. For example, a catastrophic failure that results in an immediate and life threatening failure vs. a different problem that may be a defect but doesn't result in a destoyed ladder and/or personnel being injured or killed.

    I think you will find that every builder has had a defect of some kind. The true test is how the issue was handled. For instance, a neighbor has a Brand X tower ladder that has some substantial welds that have broken where the basket ties into the stick. That could qualify as a defect. However, they're standing behind the product and handling the repairs under warranty, like most reputable builders would.

    Plus, do you count catastrophic failures caused by morons? Let's be honest, I could go out and buy one of every aerial ever made, and I could get each one to fail catastrophically. Is that the builder's fault? Nevermind that I would put three tons into the basket while flowing water or play ladder joust with a concrete building...
    Last edited by npfd801; 10-15-2010 at 05:39 PM.
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    While anyone can force a failure, there are a select few companies whose aerials have never touched the ground for any reason. That says something. Maybe those FD's that buy them hire better people, but I doubt that's really the case. The combination of build quality, safety factors, built in safety features and making controls so simple that we can't screw it up would be a more likely explanation.

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    Another Maxim failure happened in PA a year or so ago. I forget what the town was but the rig originally came from Bucks County. Buff?? Do you recall?? There was lots of photos and a video. Also related to ladderpipe operations outside of it's intended parameters.

    Sutphen dropped one, as a technicality. It was a prototype in their yard.

    We had a Grove/LTI with a failure but it was a 1968 model that the brake failed and the ladder came down on a building, slowly, but with enough force to require replacing the fly.
    FTM-PTB DTRT

    Everything I state on here is to support and aid my fellow firefighters. Everything I post is my opinion only, and in no way should be taken as an official opinion of any Company, Department, or Municipality I represent... oh and this includes Pierce Mfg, as so their legal department has advised me; since they apparently also invented the right to control "Free Speech".

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    I remember the bucks county incident, yes outside of parameters. this was also a ladder pipe evolution and too low of an angle, too much extention, with a 200 lb ladder.

    Ya cant use the ladder pipe on a 200 lb ladder like ya can on a 500 lb ladder.

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