Thread: Zebra Mussles

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    Default Zebra Mussles

    Anyone have any experience drafting from a static water source that has zebra mussles?

    We have a lake that we were planning on using to refill tankers for a regional tanker drill and I found out that it has Zebra Mussles.

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    Make sure you use the appropriate strainer, and you should not have any problems.

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    the mussle should not be too much of an issue. lake erie has them and there has not been any reported issues here. the shell could get caught at the strainer and if it doesn't it will be able to go through the eye and vanes of the impeller. then the last concern is your nozzles if they are adjustable patern nozzles it can clog them. but it will take alot of them to cause an issue severely hampering a tanker shuttle op.


    the biggest question i have is are you using just suction hose or is there a drafting hydrant? there could be some issues if the inside of the pipe has crusting on it.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Default Hard Suction

    We are planning on setting engines up on the boat ramps and using 20' of 6" suction hose - we don't have any dry hydrants installed.

    The concern is that we would then have the larve in the trucks and if we then went and dumped water that ended up in another stream we could spread them to the new stream.

    If we flush everything really good after the drill, not sure how long the larve could live on the tanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchkrat View Post
    The concern is that we would then have the larve in the trucks and if we then went and dumped water that ended up in another stream we could spread them to the new stream.

    If we flush everything really good after the drill, not sure how long the larve could live on the tanks.
    That's a valid "heads up" concern. You might want to contact your local EPA office for recommendations.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    I did not know they were clear into KS.

    http://www.epa.gov/med/grosseile_sit.../dreissena.pdf

    Army Corps of Engineers may be the people to talk to.

    http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/zebra/zmis/

    http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/a...ramussel.shtml
    Last edited by neiowa; 10-13-2010 at 12:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchkrat View Post
    We are planning on setting engines up on the boat ramps and using 20' of 6" suction hose - we don't have any dry hydrants installed.

    The concern is that we would then have the larve in the trucks and if we then went and dumped water that ended up in another stream we could spread them to the new stream.

    If we flush everything really good after the drill, not sure how long the larve could live on the tanks.
    http://www.nationalatlas.gov/articles/biology/a_zm.html

    Bad news. Not only might transfer into a new body of water but could end up with the things growing inside your tank. Might even be a more likely outcome than spreading eggs in water flowing out of structure/foldatank. Mostly like that water would end up soaking into the soil/end of the eggs?

    One source I found says kill them by pressure wash with 140F water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    http://www.nationalatlas.gov/articles/biology/a_zm.html

    Bad news. Not only might transfer into a new body of water but could end up with the things growing inside your tank. Might even be a more likely outcome than spreading eggs in water flowing out of structure/foldatank. Mostly like that water would end up soaking into the soil/end of the eggs?

    One source I found says kill them by pressure wash with 140F water.
    does anyone know if mussles and their larva can live in the presence of a-foam or dish detergant if patch mixed into the tank?
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Household chlorine bleach. See :http://www.riverrelief.org/workspace...sselpolicy.pdf

    Looks like one gallon (5.25% concentration) for every 250 gallons in the tank. Data says it will kill in 10 minutes. I'de be sure to circulate through all valves and pipes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuhShise View Post
    Household chlorine bleach. See :http://www.riverrelief.org/workspace...sselpolicy.pdf

    Looks like one gallon (5.25% concentration) for every 250 gallons in the tank. Data says it will kill in 10 minutes. I'de be sure to circulate through all valves and pipes.
    Next question is how chlorine bleach reacts with Cl A (or Ar-Afff) foam w/wo CAFS.

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    Gheez,
    We used to only have to worry about putting out fires. Now we are in the vanguard of the enviromental war. Worrying about ground water contamination from various foams and now the spread of zebra mussles. I'm glad I'm retiring in a few years. Life is getting to complicated.

    Does the snake head fish eat zebra mussles?

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    Default What about Milfoil?

    Milfoil just came to mind...
    Looks like I will need to call EPA.
    "There's no such thing as a bad day,
    Some are just better than others." JFR 1914-1997

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    Gheez,
    We used to only have to worry about putting out fires. Now we are in the vanguard of the enviromental war. Worrying about ground water contamination from various foams and now the spread of zebra mussles. I'm glad I'm retiring in a few years. Life is getting to complicated.

    Does the snake head fish eat zebra mussles?
    You DON'T Wanna know! T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    Gheez,
    We used to only have to worry about putting out fires. Now we are in the vanguard of the enviromental war. Worrying about ground water contamination from various foams and now the spread of zebra mussles. I'm glad I'm retiring in a few years. Life is getting to complicated.

    Does the snake head fish eat zebra mussles?
    the is going cyclic like the old nursery rhyme: there was an old lady who live in a shoe... she swallowed the fly....
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Cant do that in Mass fresh waters

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    You may also want to contact the Fisheries Division of your state Dept. of Natural Resources (DNR). Most likely the DNR would have recommendations on this topic, since they would be involved in helping to prevent invasive species, from entering the states lakes.

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    We have them here in North East Wisconsin. We do a lot of drafting and wind up pulling them into the pump. The smaller ones pass thru the intake screens and into the impellers, usually passing thru without much issue. Where we do have issues is in our Y strainers on the CAFS compressor cooling loops. We find the strainers plug up with ground up and small zebra mussels. The strainers plug up as they are the smallest point in the water circulation. Knowing this could be an issue when we had both of our CAFS trucks built we had air to oil coolers built into the oil circulation. The coolers are sized to provide 100% of the needed cooling in the event the water circulation to the oil to water cooler is plugged.

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    Aquatic invasive species are a big problem in Wisconsin lakes, so much so that Oneida County was working on enacting an ordinance for dry hydrant use and maintenance relative to invasive species. I'm not sure if it was ever enacted or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was:

    http://www.anstaskforce.gov/Meetings...20Overview.pdf

    http://www.oneida.wi.gov/meetings_do...5&schedid=3157

    The gist of it is that dry hydrant flushing should be done using compressed air instead of water to reduce the possibility of spreading species between bodies of water. When pumps are used at a dry hydrant, they should be disinfected. In the ordinance they specify 200 ppm of bleach (3.5 gallons bleach per 1000 gallons water) for 10 minutes to disinfect . They then recommend neutralizing the bleach by adding 3 grams of sodium thiosulfate per gallon of water and circulating the water through the pump for 3 minutes.

    Lots of extra work for fire departments, but eurasian milfoil is some nasty stuff, so it's worth the effort to keep it from spreading.

    Andy

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    Thats right Andy, that ordinance did pass the county board and is in place. While we don't have any dry hydrants in our response area, we are still supposed to flush our hoses, pumps, water tanks, etc with chlorine bleach after taking water from a lake or stream. Our biggest concern is the amount of bleach we would need to keep on hand and the potential for people to get it on their turnout gear.

    I'm surprised this hasn't come up anywhere else in the U.S. as the person who authored it has moved on to bigger and brighter things. While no fire dept wants to willingly spread any invasive species, the chiefs of our area thought education was what was needed instead of the threat of fines. Currently there is no entity to enforce it. Local law enforcement won't touch it.

    Since the ordinance was passed it has become a dead issue with not much talk about it, but it could be enforced at any time.

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