1. #1
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    Default Difference in Cairns helmets and other helmet ??? too.

    I am returning to service after being away for a couple years. Sadly I sold off my New Yorker because honestly I had no intentions of coming back. I missed it way too much so here I am.

    I LOVED my New Yorker but unfortunately I don't have the money to buy a new one (unless someone out there has one for sale that can fit my $300 budget ).

    My department issues Ben 2's and Lion Apparel. They are out of the Ben 2 and the Lion Apparel SUCKS !!!! Most uncomfortable helmet I have ever worn. I own a Cairns 880 but first of all it is the wrong color and second it is too small. The helmet fits...but it looks like a little kids toy helmet. I don't like it so I am currently selling it.

    So, with all that said...I am considering the Ben 2 which I find to be very comfy but i don't care for the way it sits kinda high. No a big deal but if I can get away from that I would like too. I would like to explore the possibility of another Cairns. My main questions is, what is the difference between the 1000, the 1010, and the 1044? How are they sizewise compared to the 880?

    Also, are the new Paul Conways the same helmet as the older Lion Apparels from 5-6 years ago or are they improved or even a totally different helmet altogether?

    One more... opinions on Bullard helmets?
    Last edited by cashton; 10-16-2010 at 08:43 PM.

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    Bullard makes great thermal imagers... helmets... not so much.
    When my FD issued, custom painted Cairns 1010 was stolemn out of the rig at a medical call, I was issued a Bullard traditional... it was so uncomfortable, it actually hurt to wear it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Bullard makes great thermal imagers... helmets... not so much.
    When my FD issued, custom painted Cairns 1010 was stolemn out of the rig at a medical call, I was issued a Bullard traditional... it was so uncomfortable, it actually hurt to wear it.
    I've never had a Bullard traditional, but my current issued helmet is a 3 year old Bullard PX modern style helmet. It is incredibly comfortable. I have worn it for 13 hours straight (local disaster) and did not have any sore spots or any other problems. Many of the other members of my department have various traditional helmets, and they are less comfortable than mine.

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    Don't know much about a 1000, but the 1010 and 1044 are the same except the 1010 is glossy and the 1044 is matte finished.

    In my opinion, there is no plastic helmet that is more comfortable than a 1010/1044 with a delux leather liner.

    Check eBay for used leathers too.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Don't know much about a 1000, but the 1010 and 1044 are the same except the 1010 is glossy and the 1044 is matte finished.

    In my opinion, there is no plastic helmet that is more comfortable than a 1010/1044 with a delux leather liner.

    Check eBay for used leathers too.
    Thanks. I think there is a guy at the station with a 1010 so I'll try to check it out.

    I've definitely been looking on ebay for a leather and I am sure in time I could possibly find something that would work...patience has never been one of my strong points though...lol...thanks for the info on the 1010/1044.

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    The following information comes direct from the Cairns Fire Helmets Catalog 2009-2010:

    Kevlar
    Classic 1000™ and Intruder 990® Helmet Models
    Fiberglass-reinforced Kevlar shell provides maximum thermal, impact, and penetration protection. Available in both modern and traditional styles.

    Fiberglass
    Cairns® 1010 and 1044, 660C Metro™, Invader 664™ and Commando HP3® Helmet Models
    Exclusive, Dura-Glas® chip-resistant, throughcolor, high-performance, high-heat-resistant, compression-molded, fiberglass composite shell. Available in both modern and traditional styles.

    Thermoplastic
    Structural 360S™, 360R™, 360R-13™ and 880 Tradition® Helmet Models
    Through-color thermoplastic shell combines toughness and durability with NFPA performance. Available in both modern and traditional styles.
    As GTRider245 pointed out, the 1010 and 1044 are the same design, but the 1010 is glossy (as is the Classic 1000) and the 1044 is matte (as is the 880). I am not absolutely certain of this, but I believe the Classic 1000 is also the same design, just made from a different material. The 880, made from yet another material ("Thermoplastic"—not sure exactly what that is), is a smaller, lower-profile helmet, as you already know.

    The Classic 1000 is their best traditional-style helmet, but can cost from $301 to $381 depending on configuration.

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    Thanks again! Great info. I did see the material differences but I couldn't find anything about the size, shape, appearance differences. I am going to go check out my buddies 1010 later today so I assume other then shell material it will tell me what to expect from the 1010, 1044, and 1000. So it sounds like the Bullard is out. So is the Cairns 1000 because of cost. If I was going to spend that much on a composite I'd just pony up the extra for a new leather.

    Anyone know about the Paul Conway? Is is a different helmet then the Lion Apparel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cashton View Post
    Anyone know about the Paul Conway? Is is a different helmet then the Lion Apparel?
    http://www.lionpsg.bz/

    There's a link to Paul Conway Helmets there. In fact, the two websites are essentially integrated together. I don't see any information about Lion Apparel-branded helmets. So it seems the answer to your question is if you want a helmet from Lion Apparel, you're getting a Paul Conway...Or for you, if you want to avoid Lion Apparel, avoid Paul Conway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJR512 View Post
    http://www.lionpsg.bz/

    There's a link to Paul Conway Helmets there. In fact, the two websites are essentially integrated together. I don't see any information about Lion Apparel-branded helmets. So it seems the answer to your question is if you want a helmet from Lion Apparel, you're getting a Paul Conway...Or for you, if you want to avoid Lion Apparel, avoid Paul Conway.
    Yeah...that's why I was wondering...I knew PC and Lion were together now so I wasn't sure if PC just re-branded the Lion Apparel junk or if they used their own design. I guess to be safe I'll steer clear. I figure between one of the Cairns models and the Ben 2 I should be ok anyways.

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    Default Lion helmets

    Cashton,
    To clarify for you, Lion Apparel has been the manufacturer of the Paul Conway helmet line for some time now. There are 3 diffent styles available. The Legacy 5 is the modern style, the American Classic is the traditional style, and the American Heritage is the traditional leather.

    I can assure you if your experience has been that any of the Lion Paul Conway helmets are uncomfortable to wear, that it is merely a result of not having it adjusted correctly. The facts are that with the profile being among the lowest in the industry, and the adjustment system being one of the most versatile, the Lion PaulConway accommodates the widest range of users out there. In addition, it proves over and over to be one of the most, if not the most durable helmet available.

    I would encourage you to contact Lion or your nearest Lion Paul Conway dealer, and ask for assistance in getting the helmet properly adjusted before drawing any conclusions. After all, your safety is the most important factor here, and I can assure you... no helmet provides more protection, or is more durable the the Lion Paul Conway line.

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    Funny thing is...EVERYONE in my station runs from the Lion Apparel helmets like they were the plague. There is not one person there that likes them. Our quartermaster officer apologized as he handed me my helmet a few weeks ago when I was getting my gear re-issued to me. I wasn't sure why until I looked down and saw the brand of my helmet. Too bad...it is a good looking helmet.

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    There's a guy in my station who swears by his Paul Conway. Not sure which model he has; it's a traditional style, and he says it's a fiberglass shell with a leather layer on the outside. So it looks like leather because at least on the outside, it is leather, but it's much lighter in weight. Anyway, he loves it and he'll never get anything else, much in the same way that a Chevy lover will never get a Ford.

    Every helmet manufacturer says their helmets are the best. Everyone that loves a particular brand of helmet, for whatever reason they love them, will always say that that brand is the best. And they won't hear a word against their beloved brand. And if someone doesn't like their beloved brand, well it must be the fault of the person who doesn't like that brand and not with the brand itself; I mean, it even inspired brand new member Imakem to register just to post to that effect.

    What I have never seen, though, and would very much like to see, is a direct comparison test between the major brands and models. Tests to evaluate for thermal transfer, durability under thermal load, stress tests, puncture tests, force transferred to the inside from an impact, and so on. A thorough, equal-condition test. Has this ever been done with currently-available models?

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    I hear ya...I did a google search but didn't see any direct comparisons of the helmets on the market now. I am sure some helmets are better then others in those regards but I think that for the most part they are pretty close to each other in how well they will protect the wearer when worn properly. So with that though in mind, knowing that any currently produced helmet should offer me adequate I am now in a position to look for the one that offers the best comfort and looks good too...lol..I would like to see some side by side comparisons though...it would be a very interesting test.

    I really don't have any brand loyalty at this point...I do like the Ben 2 from experience, I LOVE the N5A from experience, and I hate the Lion Apparel, from experience. I will admit that the most comfy helmets are the turtle shells, but I just can't bring myself to wear one, or at least buy one with my own money.

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    I went to the station and mess around with the Cairns 1010 and 1044 and the Ben 2 and my painfully uncomfortable Lion Apparel. The Ben 2 is maybe just a tad more comfy but the 1010/1044 seems to sit on my head a little better. So really it is a toss up. I don't think either would be a bad choice for me. I'll probably go with the 1044 just because it sit better, it was still comfy, and everyone else has Morning Pride or Lion Apparel except the two guys with the 1010 and 1044.

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    You can save some $ with a 1044 vs a 1010 (or 664 vs 660C modern) . The glossy finish of the 1010 will chip anyhow if you're busy. Go for the 1044.

    Look at the Carins Defender shield. Nothing like it for any other mfg and one of the best ideas to come along in a long time. Shield is never dirty, scratch, or melted when you need it. And removes one significant point of snagging on wire etc. Out of sight/way when on SCBA. Can get on the 1010/1044 traditonal series or 660C/664 series. Not everyone likes them but a significant improvement in helmet design.

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    just my two cents...from having a bullard traditional, a 1010, a 1044, a glossy 880 tradition, and now the new matte 880 Chicago I can tell you this..the bullards suck, sit too high and look like a bucket on your head, very small rear brim. the debate between the gloss and the matte comes down to this, while the matte looks way better, it actually adds weight to the helmet. My older 880 tradition (fully nfpa compliant one) was noticeably lighter than my 880 chicago (also fully nfpa compliant). My suggestion, since you're dept doesn't seem to require an nfpa compliant helmet (since you want an n5a), is to get a non nfpa compliant 880 since it fits big heads much better since it doesnt have the impact cap and it is BY FAR the lightest helmet i have ever put on my head. you can pick one up on ebay for around $100 or less.
    "The third reason we are fighting is because men like to fight. They always have and they always will. Some sophists and other crackpots deny that. They don't know what they're talking about. They are either goddamned fools or cowards, or both. Men like to fight, and if they don't they're not real men. "-Gen. George S. Patton

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    Thanks ravage for the advice but I actually just received my 1044 today. I am happy with the helmet so far, we'll see how it does in the long run. When funds are better I will be back in a N5A for sure...even though the 1044 is nice...there is NO substitution for leather...lol

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    good to hear. they are comfortable helmets for sure, i just like smaller, lower dome's myself. good luck with it and stay safe!
    "The third reason we are fighting is because men like to fight. They always have and they always will. Some sophists and other crackpots deny that. They don't know what they're talking about. They are either goddamned fools or cowards, or both. Men like to fight, and if they don't they're not real men. "-Gen. George S. Patton

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    The 1044 definitely sits on my head better than the Ben 2's which I like and the comfort is right there as well. I can't wait to get some calls in with it so I can see how it is going to do for me.

    All together and ready for service...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KB1OEV View Post
    I've never had a Bullard traditional, but my current issued helmet is a 3 year old Bullard PX modern style helmet. It is incredibly comfortable. I have worn it for 13 hours straight (local disaster) and did not have any sore spots or any other problems. Many of the other members of my department have various traditional helmets, and they are less comfortable than mine.
    I've got a Bullard UST Traditional, and I love it. It's fairly light, it sits well on my head, and it's damn comfortable.

    I think it all comes down to personal preference though. Find a dealer, try all the helmets on that you're considering, yada yada, and make your decision. I'd say Bullard, other people would say Cairns, others would say Morning Pride. It's personal preference IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cashton View Post
    The 1044 definitely sits on my head better than the Ben 2's which I like and the comfort is right there as well. I can't wait to get some calls in with it so I can see how it is going to do for me.

    All together and ready for service...
    Your location says West Virginia, but your beaver says Canada...LOL

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    Yeah...and the shamrock says Irish but I am English and Scottish...lol

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    Just out of curiosity...It seems like it might be kind of difficult to put those goggles on in a hurry, if you had to. I mean the one strap looks kind of trapped in between the flashlight and the brim. Do you have a plan for that, have you actually tried it? Just wondering...

    Also, where'd you get the front made? I've never seen one so wide!

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    Yeah...the goggles do get bound up a little with the light mount. If I had to don them in a hurry it would be a PITA however 99.9% of the time I am wearing safety glasses on scenes where I am not fighting fire. Otherwise if there is fire I either have SCBA on or I have time to get the goggles situated. I may try to figure out something a little better at some point though. I mean I could simply move the light back slightly and keep the goggles on the front but I prefer them on the back.

    The shield...for the life of me I cannot remember who crafted it. I got it 5 years ago. I can try to find out if you are interested. It is kinda on the large size, it was made originally for my New Yorker and fit it slightly better but really, even as big as the shield is, I think it really looks good on my helmet.

    Last edited by cashton; 11-03-2010 at 08:08 PM.

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    Cashton and others - pay attention to phillyfirenews.com. There's a section in their forums for individuals (no companies) for buying and selling stuff. New Yorkers and Sam Houstons turn up there fairly frequently, probably in your price range. If you check there now you can get a feel for what they go for.

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