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Thread: Scarab

  1. #1
    Forum Member jdcalamia's Avatar
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    Default Scarab

    Anyone use it? Pros, cons, etc...Let's hear it.
    John D. Calamia, BS, NREMTP, FP-C
    Firefighter/Flight Paramedic
    Broomall, PA


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    Havent used it but were looking at purchasing one, looks very innovative, hopefully someone here has some experience with the device as I to am interested in seeing what others have to say about it.
    Whats the bigger tool - a Dump Truck or the Rope Rescue Instructor that say's "This is how I've been doing it for 20 years....thats why"...........

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    does it have a "G" rating attached to it?

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    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    at first thought i was wondering if you are asking if we used a cigarette boat like sonny crocket and ricardo tubbs.....



    then i realized you aren't.





    no we don't use them. looks cool for rope
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Quote Originally Posted by cctrtlt2 View Post
    does it have a "G" rating attached to it?
    The G rating issue 'to use G rated, or not to use G rated...that is the question' - according to their own testing and figures the device has a strength of 40kN and the rope breaks first at around 26kN at the nose of the device during their pull testing.

    So I have to ask...is the fact it doesnt have the G rating really an issue?

    Other then the fact the G rating gives it an independance when it comes to testing (which is excellent for sure), but if the product is certified for 4okN but not NFPA certified for 22kN...is there a concern?

    Just trying to get some dicussion on this topic as it is one that comes up all the time!!
    Whats the bigger tool - a Dump Truck or the Rope Rescue Instructor that say's "This is how I've been doing it for 20 years....thats why"...........

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    Forum Member jdcalamia's Avatar
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    I think you answered your own question. If the device is rated above the NFPA rating, then there are no issues. If something meets the intent of the standard and is labeled as such, it's more of a convenience to the user. Basically saying "this thing is good to minimum breaking strengths". Remember standards are the bare minimum needed to operate safely. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's more important to know the ratings required in the standard and the equipment's ratings then if the equipment is in compliance with the standard. As always we need to focus on the weakest link in the system, according to your information, the rope becomes the weakest link. So the device's rating isn't really a concern, especially since everything is above the standards requirements. Not to mention a solid device such as the scarab, a rack, or an 8 brings less concern then a device with moveable parts, such as the Petzl ID, Petzl Stop, etc...Not saying I don't trust the devices just one more thing to keep an eye on.
    John D. Calamia, BS, NREMTP, FP-C
    Firefighter/Flight Paramedic
    Broomall, PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdcalamia View Post
    I think you answered your own question. If the device is rated above the NFPA rating, then there are no issues. If something meets the intent of the standard and is labeled as such, it's more of a convenience to the user. Basically saying "this thing is good to minimum breaking strengths". Remember standards are the bare minimum needed to operate safely. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's more important to know the ratings required in the standard and the equipment's ratings then if the equipment is in compliance with the standard. As always we need to focus on the weakest link in the system, according to your information, the rope becomes the weakest link. So the device's rating isn't really a concern, especially since everything is above the standards requirements. Not to mention a solid device such as the scarab, a rack, or an 8 brings less concern then a device with moveable parts, such as the Petzl ID, Petzl Stop, etc...Not saying I don't trust the devices just one more thing to keep an eye on.
    Nice response and I totally agree with you on all but the ID comment, the ID is the only device I use now and I trust it at all heights (although I am playing with the RIG at the moment and I do like that allot), I still have the Rack and 8 but I like the safety the ID offers and its ease of use for working at heights, the simple method of rotating the handle all the way to the left to lock it beats having to manually lock off the rack or even the 8.

    But I'm sure the ID debate has been beaten to death in these forums! )
    Whats the bigger tool - a Dump Truck or the Rope Rescue Instructor that say's "This is how I've been doing it for 20 years....thats why"...........

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    Forum Member FiremanLyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Always_learning View Post
    Nice response and I totally agree with you on all but the ID comment, the ID is the only device I use now and I trust it at all heights (although I am playing with the RIG at the moment and I do like that allot), I still have the Rack and 8 but I like the safety the ID offers and its ease of use for working at heights, the simple method of rotating the handle all the way to the left to lock it beats having to manually lock off the rack or even the 8.

    But I'm sure the ID debate has been beaten to death in these forums! )
    ID is a great tool. Actually all items stated are great tools. Hell, In the Amry we rappelled with a swiss seat made with body cord and a non locking carabiner with the rope double wrapped in it. Any device on the market is more safe in comparisson. Have you tried assending by turning the ID into a 3:1?
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

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    Forum Member stickboy42's Avatar
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    ID in asend mode: works great. do it regularly. found that a mechanical rope grab and your smallest (shortest down the spine) carabiner actually works better than most prusiks since it allows for a longer throw. you can move pretty easily with this setup...

    -mike

  10. #10
    Forum Member jdcalamia's Avatar
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    Not saying the ID is bad, just that any equipment with moveable parts is something to keep an eye on. Is it safe to say that the RIG is just a smaller ID? Not too familiar with it. Drew can you detail the ID 3:1 for ascending that you brought up?
    John D. Calamia, BS, NREMTP, FP-C
    Firefighter/Flight Paramedic
    Broomall, PA

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    The Rig is basically a smaller version of the I'd but with out the toothed safety cam that prevents movement when reeved backwards. I have several freindswho use them in their rope access work, it is a highly regarded peice of gear in those circles.

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