Video Shot by Ga. Firefighter Angers Crash Victim's Family

[erics99]

http://www.firehouse.com/news/top-he...victims-family

Is this another wake up call and yet another reason to ban any pictures and videos taken at scenes? Hopefully the firefighter did violate a written policy so he can be FIRED. And what a disgrace the other members are for passing this video around at a local bar, which ended up being sent to the victim's family.

[Lisa2000GT]

Wow, this is really sad for the parents and to think that someday her children might see it. It's nothing new though...reminiscent of all the bloody, gory footage from driver education courses.

[FyredUp]

http://www.firehouse.com/news/top-he...victims-family

Is this another wake up call and yet another reason to ban any pictures and videos taken at scenes? Hopefully the firefighter did violate a written policy so he can be FIRED. And what a disgrace the other members are for passing this video around at a local bar, which ended up being sent to the victim's family.

Immediate dismissal of both firefighters. The one who originally shot the video and the one who shared it in the bar.

I think a case could easily be made for a violation of patient privacy, maybe even a HIPPA violation since they shared pictures and dicscussed the victim with others besides emergency responders.

The behvaior of these 2 firefighters is despicable.

[FyredUp]

Wow, this is really sad for the parents and to think that someday her children might see it. It's nothing new though...reminiscent of all the bloody, gory footage from driver education courses.

Really? You see this as a comparison to that? A local firefighter takes a video of a dead local victim and then shares it with people and you see that no differently than a driver's ed video?

If I were her parents I would be looking for a VERY GOOD lawyer and suing those firefighters and the fire department and the county for invasion of privacy and a possible HIPPA violation.

There is simply no excuse for this behavior. There is no practical training usage of it and if that was their excuse it is entirely blown when they share it with the public.

[nmfire]

Taking that video for critique and training, fine. Sending it out to all your buddies and exhibitting at the local bar, totally unacceptable and I'd punch him myself for being such a idiot. If you can't control your SEND button, then keep the phone in your pocket.

[GTRider245]

Well, this is totaly out of line. We do in fact have written policies against using cell phones on scene to take pictures or video.

That being said, I don't know if it could be a HIPPA violation. The article didn't mention if they said her name or any other personal info in the video.

[ChiefKN]

Taking that video for critique and training, fine. Sending it out to all your buddies and exhibitting at the local bar, totally unacceptable and I'd punch him myself for being such a idiot. If you can't control your SEND button, then keep the phone in your pocket.

I hear you on the training video, but disagree.

We don't need to video or shoot any fatal scenes.

The jokers that did this should be dismissed. I only wish there was a criminal violation that covered this activity... official misconduct??? Something.

[Lisa2000GT]

Really? You see this as a comparison to that? A local firefighter takes a video of a dead local victim and then shares it with people and you see that no differently than a driver's ed video?

If I were her parents I would be looking for a VERY GOOD lawyer and suing those firefighters and the fire department and the county for invasion of privacy and a possible HIPPA violation.

There is simply no excuse for this behavior. There is no practical training usage of it and if that was their excuse it is entirely blown when they share it with the public.

Yes and no. I am in no way excusing the actions of those firefighters. I don't advocate what they did. But taking footage at crash or fire scenes is nothing new, that's all I stated. I understand from the necessity to document for investigation, for anything further I don't like. I don't know that the 'dead' victims from the 1960s in "Mechanized Death" and such 'shock' documentaries have been any more or less disrespected than this victim, just that stuff gets around a lot more and a lot faster in today's technology.

Passing such video around at a bar...insensitive, stupid, crass, unprofessional, ...you name it...just plain WRONG, I agree. Apparently, according to news reports, not illegal.

[RFDACM02]

This is why, sad as it is, we need to have policies in place before stupid crap like this stuff happens. Short of an official policy, these idiots probably can't be disciplined at the level this calls for.

I like something along the lines of this: "Any picture, video, audio or media of anytime recorded at the scene of any incident where the recording member is considered on duty or covered by the city in any manner, including allowance to be within the work zone, is the property of the XXX FD. Any dissemination or showing of this media without the express permission of the Fire Chief is prohibited." Basically you shoot, I own it. If you're anything but a bystander, your video is the property of the Dept. for which you are working. I'd further recommend that dissemination of images and videos of any emergency scene by individuals is potentially grounds for conduct unbecoming. We generally are trusted more the LEO's, this type of BS serves only to diminish the publics' trust.

[MarcusKspn]

That being said, I don't know if it could be a HIPPA violation. The article didn't mention if they said her name or any other personal info in the video.

One of the misconceptions about HIPPA is that a violation has to include a name. The main criteria is the inclusion of ANY personally identifiable information.

If the video showed a dead female passenger in her early 20's in a 1995 yellow Ford Mustang (car info purely hypothetical here), then that can easily be enough to be used to clearly identify the victim.

Not a legal analysis by any means, but just a thought to keep in mind. It takes a lot less than a name to identify somebody in a picture or a video.

[blaster668]

Really? You see this as a comparison to that? A local firefighter takes a video of a dead local victim and then shares it with people and you see that no differently than a driver's ed video?

If I were her parents I would be looking for a VERY GOOD lawyer and suing those firefighters and the fire department and the county for invasion of privacy and a possible HIPPA violation.

There is simply no excuse for this behavior. There is no practical training usage of it and if that was their excuse it is entirely blown when they share it with the public.

I am in no way saying that this is acceptable, but I do NOT think this would be a HIPAA violation. Many people have misinterpreted HIPAA, it actually only applies to services that bill insurance companies. So if your fire department does not bill for medical calls, then you are exempt from HIPAA. There very well may be other patient privacy laws in effect in your local though.

[cozmosis]

I've seen plenty of pictures of serious accidents sent between fire & EMS folks just to share the "holy $#%&" factor... but they generally don't include people and they certainly don't involve video of fatalities where the person with the camera solicits help so they can better record the gore that they're looking at!

I think someone should drop the hammer on these guys. Even without a department policy against cameras (very hard to enforce in 2010), it is most certainly conduct unbecoming... But even as important as the discipline, I think these guys need counseling.

There is a sometimes an emotional disconnect between firemen and the people we serve -- and there has to be (to a certain degree) for our own mental health. But when you have members who are doing their best to get all of the gore recorded on video and then they share with members of the general public -- you're dealing with people who are in a very unhealthy place mentally.

[Firemedic 61]

If I were her parents I would be looking for a VERY GOOD lawyer and suing those firefighters and the fire department and the county for invasion of privacy and a possible HIPPA violation.

100% HIPPA violation. A captain at Palm Beach County was fired last year for taking pics of people at a MVC and putting them on, I believe, Facebook.

This is why, sad as it is, we need to have policies in place before stupid crap like this stuff happens. Short of an official policy, these idiots probably can't be disciplined at the level this calls for.

The moron who took and then shared the video can be disciplined under HIPPA. He can then be sued civilly by the family. The guy who showed it at the bar will probably just get another piece of paper in his file since he didn't actually take the video.

[blaster668]

100% HIPPA violation. A captain at Palm Beach County was fired last year for taking pics of people at a MVC and putting them on, I believe, Facebook.



The moron who took and then shared the video can be disciplined under HIPPA. He can then be sued civilly by the family. The guy who showed it at the bar will probably just get another piece of paper in his file since he didn't actually take the video.

I would not say that with certainty..... HIPAA actually does not even apply to most firefighters.

[Firemedic 61]

I would not say that with certainty..... HIPPA actually does not even apply to most firefighters.

It does if they are providing medical care.

[blaster668]

That's a common misconception. For HIPAA to apply you must:

1. Bill patients...
2. ...through insurance companies or insurance clearinghouses...
3. ...and you must do it electronically (that doesn't include fax, BTW)

[blaster668]

Here Is more info on who is actually covered by HIPAA.

[Firemedic 61]

That's a common misconception. For HIPAA to apply you must:

1. Bill patients...
2. ...through insurance companies or insurance clearinghouses...
3. ...and you must do it electronically (that doesn't include fax, BTW)

Ok, looks like you got me. Down here 99.9% of fire departments run EMS transport so we are all governed by HIPPA, sometimes I forget no everyone does it to!

[tree68]

A local news site here solicits input from its followers - especially photos. If the guy who runs the site is on the ball, a picture of an event may be on line before responders even arrive.

For a while, providers seemed to be sending some MVA pictures in, but the novelty mostly wore off. It was also pointed out to responders (as well as the news) that in many cases the victims may not have been pictured, but other identifying factors (including license plate numbers) were usually visible. That meant that a family member may receive "notification" that their loved one was involved in an accident before officials (or other family members) could contact them.

With a heavily deployed military base in the area, the problem became that much larger, as deployed members could be seeing such images.

If I have the time, I might shoot stuff for later reference in training, but you're not going to see it in a bar, or even on the web. That's what the news people do.

[FIREMECH1]

I couldn't find my last posting concerning HIPAA and video/picture taking. But to reiterate, it is against HIPAA's laws to record, or take pictures, of an individual without written permission. This also includes the deceased.

Everybody pretty much has the basic HIPAA rules concerning the treatment of patient records according to their law. But, there is another law, a simple law.

RIGHT OF PRIVACY !!!!!

HIPAA is one of the laws that I would think you guys would respect and appreciate as it protects the rights of the individual’s privacy. Essentially, the law asserts that a patient’s right to privacy is still protected even if they are receiving emergency medical care in a public place. The patient’s right to privacy trumps the public’s right to videotape or take pictures. Just because you can’t find the text of the law that states that you cannot, then go ahead, by all means. Hopefully you have some deep pockets to pay the fines.

Is it really that hard to remember it is "HIPAA", and not "HIPPA"???

FM1