1. #1
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    Default Advantage Apparatus

    What's the scuttlebut on this outfit?

    I was looking at their website the other day. I like the design, the way they clearly explain what makes them different, and how they build your rural rig to maximize it's effectiveness. It's ( the website)also not so full of nifty gewgaws and gizmos that it takes forever to load!

    They have many very interesting features and Ideas, so I was wondering if any of you have purchased a rig from them, and how you like it.

    I do have a question:

    They say they use high pressure line for the crosslays and remote discharges to minimize the 90% elbows and high friction loss from them in steel pipe.

    A) would this work as intended?

    B) would this hold up to all the abuse firefighters can dish out? How sturdy are the connections? Is this hose vulnerable to rot?

    I like the idea of their foam Dragon and Super Supply models, a lot. They seem to have learned from other designs, and from real rural firefighters.

    I got a kick out of their notice that used Aerialscopes are few and far between, and please let us know if you find one! ( they do rebuilds) Apparently, folks that like them REALLY like them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post

    I do have a question:

    They say they use high pressure line for the crosslays and remote discharges to minimize the 90% elbows and high friction loss from them in steel pipe.

    A) would this work as intended?

    B) would this hold up to all the abuse firefighters can dish out? How sturdy are the connections? Is this hose vulnerable to rot?
    A. It depends on the size of the line. For our 1.5" connection crosslays, they use 2" high pressure. This reduces the friction loss and reduces loss from 90's. You just need to make sure that the hose is larger than the end coupling size.

    B. Our 1986 uses high pressure line rather than pipe. It is an E-one and has held up really well

    I really don't know anything about the manufacturer though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    W]
    They say they use high pressure line for the crosslays and remote discharges to minimize the 90% elbows and high friction loss from them in steel pipe.

    A) would this work as intended?

    B) would this hold up to all the abuse firefighters can dish out? How sturdy are the connections? Is this hose vulnerable to rot?
    Can't speak for Advantage itself, but on the last 8 or so pumpers we've purchased from Brand P over the past three years have used flex line in lieu of plumbing, and it's done well for us.
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    Call 610-539-5408, ask for the Fire Chief. I'm sure he could go on for days about Advantage. Be sure to ask about their 2006 Tower that didn't go in service until November of 2008!!!!
    A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTFIRE80 View Post
    Call 610-539-5408, ask for the Fire Chief. I'm sure he could go on for days about Advantage. Be sure to ask about their 2006 Tower that didn't go in service until November of 2008!!!!
    Ouch!! Was this a rebuild? I've heard of a couple of months- due to a handling issue , but 2 YEARS???

    My example was from a different manuf. A short wheelbase pumper that was extremely difficult to handle.

    Let's hope it was just a problem unit, and that they learned from the experience.


    I'm glad to hear the comments about the high pressure hose. Made me remember that our rescue pumper uses the same feature for the front bumper discharge. So far, no problems, and this is a 1995-ish truck. It doesn't see that much use though- it's 4th out on fires...

    The website says that's exactly what they do- use the 2" size for crosslays with 1.5" couplings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTFIRE80 View Post
    Call 610-539-5408, ask for the Fire Chief. I'm sure he could go on for days about Advantage. Be sure to ask about their 2006 Tower that didn't go in service until November of 2008!!!!
    Long saga, as I remember. Wasn't that the first 95' 'Scope they did? Not that it's an excuse, it isn't.

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    Advantage Apparatus is only a fire truck broker who subs out there work to a company in Canada who rebuilds all of the apparatus !

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuntPA View Post
    A. It depends on the size of the line. For our 1.5" connection crosslays, they use 2" high pressure. This reduces the friction loss and reduces loss from 90's. You just need to make sure that the hose is larger than the end coupling size.
    2" plumbing on 1-1/2" discharges has been required by NFPA 1901 since 1991.

    The use of hose as opposed to elbows is not a cheap option but is much more efficient. It is also more forgiving. It makes perfect sense for both the builder and the buyer.

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    "High pressure hose" for piping could mean anything.Get the exact specs.

    I have seen some manufactures use high pressure hydraulic hose for that application. That hose will handle many thousand psi and could outlast and out perform the piping.

    But you just never know what you are getting unless the manufacture spells it out for you.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDMAXX View Post
    "High pressure hose" for piping could mean anything.Get the exact specs.

    I have seen some manufactures use high pressure hydraulic hose for that application. That hose will handle many thousand psi and could outlast and out perform the piping.

    But you just never know what you are getting unless the manufacture spells it out for you.
    Most of the hose being used by familiar builders are what is known as 2-wire hydraulic hose. Generally rated for operating pressures of 1500 PSI and above with a 2:1 safety factor. Much higher ratings than common pipe and even some manifolds built only to meet NFPA (500 PSI pressure test if I recall correctly.)

    While it is technically flexible, it is not fun to install. However, it allows for more vibration and can absorb shock far better than rigid piping. It is also expensive. Expensive to buy, even in bulk, and expensive to invest in a boat load of different sizes of hose and every conceivable fitting for each size. And, thanks to the imagination of the average American firefighter, the builder will need nearly everyone of those fittings, eventually.

    Builders who are investing in the use of hydraulic hose to move relatively low fire pressures are doing so for two reasons:

    1. To save money in the long run. Faster build time and lower warranty costs reduce
    cost per unit.
    2. Build a better product. Hydraulic hose is overkill and built to certified standards.

    Spotting hydraulic hose is easy. Look at the hose and look for the SAE rating.

    UPDATE

    I checked into the standards and found the reason for use of 2-wire hose. 1-wire hose is apparently not "industry standard" above 2" ID. I hope this chart comes through the comment editor OK. For the record, 100R2 is what is known as 2-wire. There are something like sixteen different R?? numbers, 100R1 and 100R2 are the most common and economical. In fact, a lot of the other SAE R numbers are lower rated and much more expensive but not necessarily suited for water.

    Anyhow, remember to look for the SAE number on the hose. Here are the standards:


    SAE# psi ID, in. psi ID, in.
    100R1 3,000 3/16 375 2
    100R2 5,000 3/16 1,000 2-1/2
    Last edited by firepundit; 10-26-2010 at 11:13 PM.

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    Wow, some good info there!

    It does make sense that hose would be more durable than rigid steel pipe. In fact, I believe I heard somewhere that they use it for front discharges for that very fact. Hose would not transmit the force of a collision directly back to the pump.

    Does anyone know anything about the company itself? I occasionally see their name come up in a new delivery blurb, but not much...

    After doing some checking, just about all the stuff I like about their design could be done by any good custom builder.

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