Thread: Where is IAFF?

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    Default Where is IAFF?

    ..............
    Last edited by big_leauges; 03-28-2011 at 07:18 PM.

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    If you look at the rest of IAFF exec board and how their email addresses are here should be his. Good luck in getting a response. Let us know what you find out.

    hschaitberger@iaff.org
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    I certainly sympathize with the situation. Fixing it seems like a no-brainer.

    If there is a problem, it is this: civil service tests.

    Unlike private industry, which can hire pretty much whoever it wants, many municipalities require that applicants take a test. The score determines eligibility/hiring rank.

    Many municipalities have residency requirements, too. Private industry does not.

    From my experience as a federal employee, I know that in most cases, someone hired from outside because of a priority hiring list (returning overseas employees particularly) is general somewhat resented as they automatically beat out local candidates, regardless of qualifications.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_leauges View Post
    Where has the IAFF gone? I am a laid off firefighter from MI. In for months I have tested in 7 states, including MI. Apparently, in some cities, experience actually hurts.

    In MI, when a guy gets laid off from a car factory, he is moved to another if available. At least they are offered out of state jobs. Why dosen't the IAFF step in and help the laid off brothers? Perfect example... In MI 4 jobs became open in a small southeast town. 4 people just got laid off 20 miles away. Why in the hell don't they just take the 4 guys, and save a hell of alot of money in testing and background checks.

    I read the forums and are part of a few of them. And this may sound harsh, but laid off guys should not have to be testing against guys fresh out of the academy. Experience and proven liability should outweigh a guy who guessed an answer on a test.

    This is a major dilema right now. Guys are getting laid off. But alot of places are hiring, and the IAFF needs to step in and help. These guys paid their dues and are proven firefighters! One guy I worked with is near 40. He will probably never get another chance at firefighting due to his age. Damn it these guys deserve to continue being firefighters before some kid fresh out of the academy.

    If anyone has President Shaitberger's email, please pm it to me. I have a list of ideas on how to prove to him this idea could work. Just like at a fire scene, we should be protecting ourselves first.
    There are brothers and sisters in Massachusetts that have been laid off.. if the community is part of the civil service system, the laid off firefighters go on a rehire list... there are communities hiring. Non civil service FD's do make announcements and do their own testing.

    Part of the problem with a rehire list is the fact that once a community that has laid off firefighters recalls the laid off firefighters, the community that took them on gets left holding the bag... and has to start the hiring process all over again, plus the cost of uniforms and PPE, etc.

    Background checks still have to be done regardless if the firefighter was a 20 year veteran or a newbie hired and laid off the same day ( yes, that game has been played before by cities and towns...)

    I know of one community that called in a laid off firefighter for an interview. This FD has a drug testing policy that requires hair samples be given. The "candidate" shaved all of the hair off of his body... including the "nether regions". What was he trying to hide?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Just to echo what was said by another poster: I wish I had the power to simply offer positions to people in the OP's position, but I am restricted by civil service law. It's simply not allowed. I have to put everyone through the same entry level test whether they're fresh out of the academy or 20 year veterans who just got laid off. A lateral entry test is certainly a civil service option we have, but to set something like that up would take months of wrangling with the city council, the mayor, and the civil service board.

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    The IAFF doesn't have purview over a local city's hiring process.

    You're scapegoating the wrong people.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Agreed fuss...

    Last time I checked.. the IAFF helps us maintain a safe, stable and healthy working environment.... Not hand us a job.

    I feel your pain Big_Leagues... the only option you have is get your medic (if you dont have it) or be patient.

    good luck.

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    What do you mean by "proven liability" ? I hope you meant proven dependability . I tend to shy away from the guys that are a proven liability.

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    I know it can be done as my old department is doing it. The have been hiring laterals and those who have been laid off in their last class of recruits. The intent was to pick up those who are and were laid off. The last time I checked the class was still a go and I think will work out well. If there is no list the Chief can hire as he wishes as long as he works with HR.

    P.S. I'm with BW21 as the IAFF works for working conditions, pay and does not hand out badges.
    Last edited by JayDudley; 10-29-2010 at 12:40 PM.
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    This has been s problem with the fire service for a long time , if you wanted to move yo a different city or state ,you had to start all over again

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    Not with the Feds...you can transfer all over the U.S.
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    Yea they are special


    Maybe the US needs to go federal fire dept like some other countries do

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    The tax payers deserve the best possible guy for the job. Just because you are seasoned, doesn't mean you are good. The best candidate can only be picked through competition.
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    Last year, Bossier City had to lay off over 20 members due to a budget shortfall.

    Most of the laid off members were hired by Shreveport and a few by a fire district north of Shreveport. Instead of having to take the entire 22-week academy, they were only required to attend a 4-week academy which basically was an overview of Shreveport's operations. They also did this with a few members hired from one of our neighboring fire districts in the same class.

    In exchange, the members had to sign a statement stating they would not leave Shreveport and return to Bossier City if the positions were re-funded and they were able to return to Bossier.

    They did work out a deal where the service time with Bossier City carried over for seniority/promtion purposes but not any rank they may have had with BCFD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BW21 View Post
    Last time I checked.. the IAFF helps us maintain a safe, stable and healthy working environment.... Not hand us a job.
    I don't disagree. But I would opine that it's an area that IAFF could become an advocate. Not of handing anyone a job (you still have to qualify, etc), rather streamlining the process by which actions as suggested by the OP could more easily occur.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    He needs to point his anger as the tax payers who denied the funding to his department, not the IAFF.

    Maybe turn to your iaff local and ask them if they can get with the city.. Maybe the city will allow you to do road work or something until they have the funds to re-hire.

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    They are too busy in TN condeming the actions of a Volunteer fire department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    They are too busy in TN condeming the actions of a Volunteer fire department.
    While I don't agree with President Shaitberger's statement about this matter (he should have stayed out of it), it didn't warrant a cheap shot from you.
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 10-29-2010 at 08:38 PM. Reason: spelling correction
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    A few things, first thanks for the replies... I
    Last edited by big_leauges; 03-28-2011 at 07:19 PM.

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    BW, the town I was in basically just gave the
    Last edited by big_leauges; 03-28-2011 at 07:19 PM.

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    Fuss, and a couple of others: While I don't disagree with your point about Experience and Training. Departments down this way have no interest at all in your experience and Training, since when you are hired, you go to the Academy. Period. A couple of years ago, a friend of mine left one County FD after 4 or 5 Years to accept a Job with another. He started all over at the Bottom. Again. County Departments like we have are large enough to be able to Pay a Firefighter while they go thru the Academy, so they do. The thought behind this is that by Training someone to do it "your" way, they will always do things right and fit right in with everyone else. In Practice, this theory leaves a bit to be desired though..........

    (BTW, there are only 5 "City" Departments in the entire State of Maryland, in Baltimore, Hagerstown, Cumberland, Annapolis, and Salisbury. Every other Department is either County or Independent VFDs........
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    The problem is that different cities aren't like different GM plants. Does the UAW go up to Ford saying hey we have these 20 GM guys, hire them? As far as I know they don't.

    The problem is the civil service laws of 50 states, 1 federal district, and a thousands of county and muncipalities. Maybe the IAFF could provide a list of recently laid of guys to be made available to departments, but anything else would be throwing time and money down a pit. The IAFF is international too, can I transfer from the US to Canada or vice versa?

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    Out in California, Alameda City did a neat thing a few months ago. They were in need of a few bodies so the only applications that were allowed were from laid off FF's. You had to have a letter from the department that you were laid off from as proof to qualify to take their exam.
    IAFF

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    That's what I like to hear snowball, helping brothers first!

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_leauges View Post
    BW, the town I was in basically just gave the cops $500 a year to go PSO. And the clowns they are, they agreed. Next year 4 more firefighters will get laid off. One is 47y/o with 15 years exp, and another is 52, and could run circles around most 20 year olds. These guys deserve another, a better shot, and continuing their careers.
    I dont disagree with you brother, infact I feel like most new recruits in the fire service have a "I learned everything I need to know in class" attitude. I'd personally rather work with a brother that has experience.

    What kind of union were you a member of? Anymore It seems like most locals talk big and act like they are tough as nails but when it comes down to it they usually stand by and let people get laid off.

    I'll keep my eyes open for any laterals I see...

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