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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
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    Default Duct Tape & Tempered Glass

    I want to see what different techniques we can come up with for taping tempered glass. What got me thinking was I recently had the opportunity to evaluate a new product sold by Les Baker out of So. Carolina that can be used to hold broken glass together.

    For right now, I'll start off with good old duct tape. I do show taping tempered glass during my University of Extrication hands-on seminars. In my opinion, there is a way to do it and then there is a better way to do it. Remember, sticky tape is only sticky when the glass is dry and at normal temperature. Duct taping is a waste of time in a rain storm or if the temperature is too cold.

    My most effective technique with duct tape begins by placing two vertical strips of tape on the window first. Then multiple strips of duct tape go horizontally across the glass, over the two vertical strips, forming a grid.

    To make things work even better, each vertical strip has a 'handle' on it for pulling the glass out once it is broken. To create my handle, I take the tape vertically and press it onto the glass at the top of the window glass. I then pull off more tape than is necessary to go down beyond the window; an excess of 6 to 8 inches too long is good. Then I attach this too long vertical strip to the glass at the bottom. (It's attached at the top and at the bottom but not in the middle just yet) As I work the tape up from the bottom and down from the top, I end up with an excess in the middle. That is what gets pressed together and becomes my handles.

    A series of horizontal strips then go over both vertical strips, from edge of glass to edge of glass. That way, when I break the glass, I pull on the vertical strips and it brings everything with it most efficiently.

    Anyone else have other ways of using Duct Tape on tempered window glass?

    If not, then share ways of securing glass with other adhesive materials.
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    Last edited by rmoore; 10-30-2010 at 03:21 PM.
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  2. #2
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    I have to be honest. I've been doing extrication for 20 something years and never taped a window.

    Except during drills and class.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  3. #3
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    We have experimented with duct tape similar to what you have shown along with rolled contact paper and quick tack spray adhesive. All of these all seem to work for the most part as long as the weather is cooperative.

    The use of lexan "casualty shields" seems to be a popular practice in Europe with most of the rescue squads carrying some type of these. If access is already available they place these behind the tempered glass and control the breakage.

    This is an interesting material being marketed in Europe that states the adhesive grips equally well in all weather conditions, wet or dry. http://www.packexesmash.com/en

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
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    Default

    The PACKEXE adhesive material was made available to all participants
    at the Firehouse Expo 2010 in Baltimore thi year.
    We used it on over 20 vehicles over the two-day period.

    When the manufacturer says it is sticky...it is sticky.
    We poured water directly onto the plastic sheeting as it was coming off the roll and it still stuck. We sprayed water on the window while applying the material and it still stuck.

    The reason is that the applicator is a huge roller that acts as a giant squeegee to force out any water and bind the adhesive plastic to the glass. This works well.

    The inherent problem with this British product though is that the applicator is plastic, works in an awkward position, and takes a lot of practice to get it right. Once in place, the stuff worked well.

    The mil thickness of the plastic was enough that we could also use it to cover 'sharps' which is actually a solution to a problem that we desperately need to have a solution for.

    A similar product called ProtectoWrap is out there. It too is very sticky.
    It is real thick. It makes great sharps protection. It is too thin in width however (12 inches) to do a good job covering a door window for glass breaking.

    http://www.extricationwrap.com/
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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  5. #5
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    The problem with this practice is that it's rather pointless if you don't do the entire window. 4 or 5 strips of tape will catch some of the glass. The rest is going to go all over the place no matter what. Why bother.

    If there was something inexpensive and simple that could cover the whole pane of glass and contain 80-90% of it, that could be worthwhile.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Cool Another Idea for Side Glass...

    Another idea that has worked well in the past is before the power is disconnected, roll the window down. If you still need to "pop the window" then leave 1/2" to an 1" showing and pop it. All the pieces will fall inside of the door. A key part though is to only commit (1) arm into the vehicle and keep it along the door panel. Obviously, if the vehicle has side air bags I don't recommend using this technique.

    Try using "Cling Wrap"; we use it on our BA Masks during Drills and it works well. I reckon it would work well here also; place it on the side window, push it against the window, and leave a corner open for the punching tool (spring loaded tool) or punch it through the Cling Wrap.

    I know this may not work in all situations, but check it out and see when it would work for ya.....
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

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    Hi

    A good topic Ron

    We have moved away from using masking tape. It can be time consuming and does not always work. We only manage the glass that needs to be managed, as already stated were possible we wind down the window into the door and tape/ sheet over the top incase of accidental breakage. As a rule of thumb we only manage what needs managing to keep glass debris to a minimum.

    With reference to the Packexe Smash, we use this and it is a brilliant bit of kit, Ron you say it takes a lot of practice to get right, out of the packet it took me and our extrication team minutes to get it mastered, its very simple and easy, i don't know what problems you may have had. Yes its plastic but its light with no moving parts.

    Yes you have to cover all the window but this adds for maximum glass removal, we covered the hole of a tailgate window and were then able to cut it with a recip saw as if it was Laminated.

    Nice topic

    Jon

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
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    The training necessary is learning to unroll the roll backwards while pressing the roller against the window while moving the entire roll generally upwards in the direction you want to go while wearing gloves so you can safely use the roll which is a bit of a challenge to unroll in the first place. Other than that...it's easy.
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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  9. #9
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Ditto. Too time-consuming, too unreliable (wet glass, dirty glass). We just get a good extrication blanket over the patient(s) and interior rescuer(s) and remove the glass.
    Last edited by rmoore; 11-10-2010 at 07:59 PM.
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    Doesnt mean you shouldnt start now though?....
    Last edited by rmoore; 11-10-2010 at 08:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnycutter View Post
    Hi

    A good topic Ron

    We have moved away from using masking tape. It can be time consuming and does not always work. We only manage the glass that needs to be managed, as already stated were possible we wind down the window into the door and tape/ sheet over the top incase of accidental breakage. As a rule of thumb we only manage what needs managing to keep glass debris to a minimum.

    With reference to the Packexe Smash, we use this and it is a brilliant bit of kit, Ron you say it takes a lot of practice to get right, out of the packet it took me and our extrication team minutes to get it mastered, its very simple and easy, i don't know what problems you may have had. Yes its plastic but its light with no moving parts.

    Yes you have to cover all the window but this adds for maximum glass removal, we covered the hole of a tailgate window and were then able to cut it with a recip saw as if it was Laminated.

    Nice topic

    Jon
    This stuff works in all weathers.Used it in the UK in my department.Dont know if they still do.

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    Jon, not sure i agree with you when you say that you only manage glass that needs to be managed. ALL glass should be managed. If you're doing some then why not do them all? Takes seconds. Airbags in doors can go off by cutting a wiring loom on the other side of the car.... airbags in doors often shatter glass in that door.
    Last edited by rmoore; 11-10-2010 at 08:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeves1 View Post
    Jon, not sure i agree with you when you say that you only manage glass that needs to be mangaged.ALL glass should be managed.If youre doing some then why not do them all? Takes seconds.Airbags in doors can go off by cutting a wiring loom on the other side of the car.... airbags in doors often shatter glass in that door.
    HI jeeves1

    I see your point mate, and i do not have a reason against it, we used to manage all the glass, and then as you said it's all done and nothing to worry about later.

    If unsure we manage all glass, but usually if we are happy with our plan, following a sound assessment we would only manage what needs to be managed, if we are not removing the doors we would leave that glass in situ for example. Not the best example but the latest teachings seem to be manage what need to be done not manage it for the sake of it. Two different schools of thought, both are good when all goes to plan

  14. #14
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    I've never had a patient or responder cut by tempered glass....

    So, why should we?
    Last edited by rmoore; 11-10-2010 at 08:02 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Old school attitude... doesnt mean it wont.Its not just about being cut by it,its a projectile hazard especially if not managed properly
    Last edited by rmoore; 11-10-2010 at 08:02 PM.

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    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Old school is wrong because its old?

    Like I said, I've yet to have or even hear of a problem.

    Managing properly is the key phrase in your post. I'd prefer to leave the glass in the door then to use duct tape, break the window and capture some of the glass.
    Last edited by rmoore; 11-10-2010 at 08:02 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Old school of thought. ie. We have done it one way for so long so why consider safer ways/ better ways?
    Last edited by rmoore; 11-10-2010 at 08:02 PM.

  18. #18
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeves1 View Post
    Old school of thought. ie. We have done it one way for so long so why consider safer ways/ better ways?
    Prove its better and safer and I'll consider it.

    My experience is that its time consuming, unneccesary and messy.

    You don't know me, but if you did, you would know that I'm not opposed to progress, just not for "progress" sake.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    On my dept we try to waste no time, we cover patient and responder inside and pop them all but front and rear. Boom done takes about ten seconds and never had a problem with glass other than it not being broke yet. When our responder first gets in they check rolling window down, trys once and if no go then windows go. But this is in Minnesota and we do things funny up here

  20. #20
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    I'm with you. I have never been cut or seen anyone cut by broken tempered glass. We do remove all glass, but only the windshield bears any attention beyond just bustin' it. If the patient is covered, it's not a problem.
    Last edited by rmoore; 11-10-2010 at 08:02 PM.
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