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  1. #61
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Its called wealth redistribution.

    “To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.” — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  2. #62
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    The things passed in that time frame were passed because of bipartisanship on the Republicans' side which was returned in kind when a Republican President took office.The Democrats sure understand how to accept help but not give it.Such openmindedness.
    You stated that Dodd and Frank blocked legislation that would have prevented the banking crisis. What pieces did they block? Your claim lacks any proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    As I said,the Democrats were in the majority in the House of Representatives and the Senate when the financial crisis started.Why didn't THEY do something about it instead of accepting better bank loans that citizens can get from the very banks they were supposed to be overseeing(Chris Dodd,Barney Frank)?
    Because there was a GOP president who made it clear he would veto any legislation that imposed regulations on the banking industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    Not really.I'm the sort that assigns blame where it goes.Kinda like when I'd blamed Fireman Jimmy Carter for not checking the aforementioned forced draft blower's oil level before the turn of the watch.
    When it ran dry and threw turbine blades over the fireroom,I got the blame because it happened after *I* took over the watch and FN Carter had headed up to the messdeck and his bunk.
    Believe me,that defense that the previous watch made the error which caused the problem doesn't wash with a General Court Martial for dereliction of duty.
    Really? Did you say that to Bush. He blamed Clinton for just about everything till the day he left office.
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  3. #63
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The liberals honestly beleive that the poor and middle class honestly have a right to the money of the rich.

    They honestly beleive that somehow thwe workers actually produced that wealth, not the owner of the company, the stockholders or the CEO, and that those who invested in the company should give it back to those who truly deserve it.

    The fact is wealth is a good thing, and the reality is that the majority of the money will be controlled by a few, and the majority will live middle or lower class lives. That is the beauty of capitalism.

    The liberals simply don't see that.
    No they don't. They just want everyone to have the same opportunity. Something that doesn't occur when 1% of the population controls the majority of a nation's wealth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Its called wealth redistribution.

    “To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.” — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816
    And you believe redistribution of wealth doesn't occur in capitalist societies? You don't know much about history do you?

    Since you're big on quotes, here's one from an economist that is considered one of the icons of capitalism. While I admire Jefferson as a political philosopher he died broke.

    "The rate of profit... is naturally low in rich and high in poor countries, and it is always highest in the countries which are going fastest to ruin."
    -- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-05-2010 at 10:33 PM.
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  4. #64
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And you believe redistribution of wealth doesn't occur in capitalist societies? You don't know much about history do you?

    Since you're big on quotes, here's one from an economist that is considered one of the icons of capitalism. While I admire Jefferson as a political philosopher he died broke.

    "The rate of profit... is naturally low in rich and high in poor countries, and it is always highest in the countries which are going fastest to ruin."
    -- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations
    Actually, I'm an expert in history. So, I will ignore your silly comment.

    Redistribution of wealth via market forces is fine. Artificially altering that market using extreme taxes for social reasons is inefficient and inhibits the growth rate of that market.

    I'm tickled that you quoted Adam Smith. How quaint!

    "Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things. "
    Adam Smith

    "The real tragedy of the poor is the poverty of their aspirations."
    Adam Smith

    So, now you'll quote A.S. in a way to support the progressive tax system... go ahead. I'm ready to counter that.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 11-05-2010 at 11:35 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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  5. #65
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post

    So, now you'll quote A.S. in a way to support the progressive tax system... go ahead. I'm ready to counter that.
    "All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."

    "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."
    You don't understand the point. Smith believed in capitalism. He also believed that while it is a great of progress and its own worst enemy. It’s so good at pulling money out of the goose that lays the golden egg that it’ll eventually destroy it. The current financial mess is a good example.

    The free market is genius, but not omnipotent.

    Your remarks would be relevant if the market were truly free. It isn't, hasn't been for some time, and those that are the "haves" have no intention of changing it anytime soon.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-06-2010 at 12:27 AM.
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  6. #66
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You don't understand the point. Smith believed in capitalism. He also believed that while it is a great of progress and its own worst enemy. Itís so good at pulling money out of the goose that lays the golden egg that itíll eventually destroy it. The current financial mess is a good example.
    Oh, I understand that he supported capitalism. However, he doesn't have the monopoly on defining it. He was the first to explore it in a popular manner and I think that some of his observations were dead on. Some are not so clear and couldn't possibly see the complicated markets we have today.

    The problem is that the current tax system in NO way follows the maxims of A.S.

    The simple fact is that the free market, like democracy can easily be cannibalistic and destroy itself.

    You need minor revolutions (like this last election and the recent revisions to the controls on the market) to keep the system working. Unfortunately, most times the corrections swing too far and have the wrong effect (also what I'm afraid has happened recently).

    I'm not a Tea Party Republican. However, I do believe that this country, state, county and township have to make significant changes in the way it spends money it doesn't have. All deficit spending isn't bad, but we've gone too far. Its not sustainable.

    I think the governor of the great state of NJ is in the process of slamming on the brakes and will help to put us on the right course.

    The free market is genius, but not omnipotent.
    Agreed. Just like the Republican party.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  7. #67
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    No they don't. They just want everyone to have the same opportunity. Something that doesn't occur when 1% of the population controls the majority of a nation's wealth.

    So the answer is to tax someone who is successful, or someone's family that has been successful at a higher rate than someone who has not been? Really, that's your answer?

    Sharing the wealth by taxing them isn't the answer. Reduce their tax load. Make them want to invest. Encourage philanthropic giving via deductions. Simply taking money from them because they have been successful isn't doing anyone any good.

    You want to give people opportunity? Make them take it. reduce social programs. reduce welfare. Force them to get of their butts and force them to make their own opportunities. And if they don't, guess what? it's their fault and not the fault of the rich who you expect to support those who have chosen to not take responsibility for their lives.

    Personal responsibility is the answer.

    Honestly, it's that simple. Raising the rates on the rich is simply not, never has been and never will be the answer so many liberals think it is.

  8. #68
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    Actually,I have often wondered why the Democrats throw hissy fits when the Republicans get a majority in one level of Congress,even as slim as the one they hold in the House of Representatives.Could it be because Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to give up Air Force tranpsortation to and from California at 15 minute strip alert notice?
    If they are that upset at losing a portion of the House,imagine how they'll behave when they learn that not all Americans want them to put as much government control into places where the government should be using Thomas Jefferson's Lassaie faire(sp!-it's been a while since Mr Larsha's and Mr Currie's American History classes ) approach to government and the free market.
    Instead of taking over businesses,the government should help by raising tariffs on imports to encourage people to buld factories in this country to make products.
    It wouldn't bother me to see taxes raised on businesses that hire illegal immigrants at a level which would make it cheaper to hire people who are natural US citizens to do the jobs they hire out for.
    Last edited by doughesson; 11-06-2010 at 01:15 PM.

  9. #69
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    No,I said that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd failed to exercise the power they had as Chairs of the committees which were supposed to oversee the banking and finance industries.The proof I used came from watching the 6 o'clock news,usually the local CBS affiliate since the remote control on my tv is messed up and only have the buttons work on a set that cannot be set up on the unit.

    There were and are regulations on the banking industry.What we need are politicians on the overseeing committees who will see that the regs are enforced.

    President Bush got handed a declining economy,not because he didn't know what to do with it,but because the technology boom was ending even as William Jefferson Clinton left office.
    He gave the surplus back to the people who'd paid for it because we were being overtaxed during the Clinton years.We had such a robust economy IN SPITE of the Clinton era,not because of it.Imagine what we could have done in that time if we didn't have such high taxe rates.
    For that matter,I had to PAY extra from 1994 to 2001 and I never saw more than $23K a year during that time.I wasn't in the top 1% of wage earners at that paygrade.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You stated that Dodd and Frank blocked legislation that would have prevented the banking crisis. What pieces did they block? Your claim lacks any proof.


    Because there was a GOP president who made it clear he would veto any legislation that imposed regulations on the banking industry.


    Really? Did you say that to Bush. He blamed Clinton for just about everything till the day he left office.

  10. #70
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So the answer is to tax someone who is successful, or someone's family that has been successful at a higher rate than someone who has not been? Really, that's your answer?
    Possibly.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Sharing the wealth by taxing them isn't the answer. Reduce their tax load. Make them want to invest. Encourage philanthropic giving via deductions. Simply taking money from them because they have been successful isn't doing anyone any good.
    Deductions are subsidies and interference in the free market. You want it both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You want to give people opportunity? Make them take it. reduce social programs. reduce welfare. Force them to get of their butts and force them to make their own opportunities. And if they don't, guess what? it's their fault and not the fault of the rich who you expect to support those who have chosen to not take responsibility for their lives.
    Blah...blah....blah. The cute notion that private charity can or ever will provide for the vulnerable in society has been disproven by bitter experience ever since Dickensian Britain. Do we really need to learn that lesson again? Well, apparently, you do.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Personal responsibility is the answer.
    Great platitude. It conflicts with reality when one examines the wealth acquired by the wealthy in our society via their manipulation of the market and political process. Opportunities not even close to being available to those outside of those circles.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Honestly, it's that simple. Raising the rates on the rich is simply not, never has been and never will be the answer so many liberals think it is.
    It's only that simple to a simpleton.

    Tax cuts have been shown to not create jobs. The Bush tax cuts have been in effect for almost ten years. Bush had one of the worst records of job creation of any recent president.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-06-2010 at 07:20 PM.
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  11. #71
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    Actually,I have often wondered why the Democrats throw hissy fits when the Republicans get a majority in one level of Congress,even as slim as the one they hold in the House of Representatives.Could it be because Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to give up Air Force tranpsortation to and from California at 15 minute strip alert notice?
    If they are that upset at losing a portion of the House,imagine how they'll behave when they learn that not all Americans want them to put as much government control into places where the government should be using Thomas Jefferson's Lassaie faire(sp!-it's been a while since Mr Larsha's and Mr Currie's American History classes ) approach to government and the free market.
    Instead of taking over businesses,the government should help by raising tariffs on imports to encourage people to buld factories in this country to make products.
    It wouldn't bother me to see taxes raised on businesses that hire illegal immigrants at a level which would make it cheaper to hire people who are natural US citizens to do the jobs they hire out for.
    So when can we expect the newly elected GOP officials to reveal their plans for deficit reduction?

    Love your simplistic beliefs regarding the business community. You make it sound as though they are barely getting by. The reality is all those individuals who groveled for bailouts by Bush and Co. are sitting on mountains of cash.

    The rest of your post is completely laughable given the bellyaching we heard from the GOP the last two years.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-06-2010 at 04:27 PM.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So when can we expect the newly elected GOP officials to reveal their plans for deficit reduction?

    Love your simplistic beliefs regarding the business community. You make it sound as though they are barely getting by. The reality is all those individuals who groveled for bailouts by Bush and Co. are sitting on mountains of cash.

    The rest of your post is completely laughable given the bellyaching we heard from the GOP the last two years.
    But the reality is, it's their cash.

    It's not the poor's cash. It's not the government's cash. It's their cash and they have the right to spend it, or not spend it anyway they want. They have no obligation to do anything with it. The government has no place to tell them that they don't need it, or we feel you already have enough cash, so we are going to increase your tax rate so your cash will go to others who we feel need it more than you.
    I'm not a believer that it's the governments job to take care of those in need. it also not my job. If I choose to donate, fine, but my taxes shouldn't be supporting other member's of society's basic needs.

    It's simply not the gov'ts place to decide how rich is rich enough or how rich is too rich.

    More than once Obama has stated that he feels that there are people in this country who have more money than they need. The fact is people have the right to have as much money as they want, and it will never be the governments place to determine how rich our citizens can become, and tax rates shouldn't be any different just because they have acquired wealth.

    It's not their job to take care of society. It's people jobs responsibility to take care of their own needs.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-06-2010 at 11:29 PM.

  13. #73
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    But the reality is, it's their cash.
    So who should pay for the services of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It's not the poor's cash. It's not the government's cash. It's their cash and they have the right to spend it, or not spend it anyway they want. They have no obligation to do anything with it. The government has no place to tell them that they don't need it, or we feel you already have enough cash, so we are going to increase your tax rate so your cash will go to others who we feel need it more than you.
    Only if you believe government had no part in an individual being able to achieve. A completely naive and ignorant belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I'm not a believer that it's the governments job to take care of those in need. it also not my job. If I choose to donate, fine, but my taxes shouldn't be supporting other member's of society's basic needs.
    I would like to have a nickel for every time I've heard that from someone who fell on hard times and needed to collect unemployment or food stamps to help them get back on their feet. I could have retired years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It's simply not the gov'ts place to decide how rich is rich enough or how rich is too rich.
    More platitudes that ignore reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    More than once Obama has stated that he feels that there are people in this country who have more money than they need. The fact is people have the right to have as much money as they want, and it will never be the governments place to determine how rich our citizens can become, and tax rates shouldn't be any different just because they have acquired wealth.
    He's never said anyone has more money than they need. You've dissolved into fantasy. Please tell me what country has a higher standard of living with lower taxes that has as lax an immigration of the US. I'll move there.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It's not their job to take care of society. It's people jobs responsibility to take care of their own needs.
    You must not believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. I believe it is part of being a good citizen to pay taxes in order to ensure that society is protected, educated, able to conduct commerce to provide for those opportunities, and to provide a safety net for those who have fallen on hard times. Your belief is the typical IGM mindset that believes no one but yourself has provided for your opportunities. It ignores that no one has invaded our nation since the early 19th century, that the populace is educated (you may be one of the few that is private school educated), or that simple things like hot and cold running water exist, an adequate food supply exists, and the infrastructure to get it to market. I'm not surprised, you've never shown yourself to be much of a deep thinker.

    Fortunately for America, people like you have rarely been in charge of formulating public policy. We'd still be living in the America that existed before WW I. It wasn't all that great for folks who weren't wealthy. The working class (that's you) was treated poorly. The ruling powers of the day had similar beliefs as yours. Since they controlled the economy, the lower classes were considered expendable when little things like workplace injuries and fatalities occurred.
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  14. #74
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I would like to have a nickel for every time I've heard that from someone who fell on hard times and needed to collect unemployment or food stamps to help them get back on their feet. I could have retired years ago.
    Unemployment is paid for through my payroll deduction. Its insurance, not welfare.

    I will never need food stamps. I say that with 100% assurance. I will never allow things to get that bad.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  15. #75
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Unemployment is paid for through my payroll deduction. Its insurance, not welfare.
    It's still a socialist program as defined by the tea bag crowd. Funny how you don't see it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I will never need food stamps. I say that with 100% assurance. I will never allow things to get that bad.
    You never know. Maybe you get hit by a drunk driver and end up driving a wheel chair with a straw in your teeth. LAFE believes churches will rush to your aid. Or your kidneys might shut down. Or a piece of plaque breaks loose and lodges in your head leaving you drooling in a cup. You would be wise to not believe in absolutes.

    How about the backstroking by Boner and company on where they are going to cut? Instead they're saying they'll wait for the report from Obama's Deficit Commission. A commission they opposed. They've made it clear Social Security, Medicare, and Defense are off the table. Which pretty much eliminates the big ticket items and keeps in place two major socialist programs. Which is inconsistent with all the rhetoric we've heard the last year.

    Reminds me of my grade school days when we were told about Duck and Cover.

    Tea baggers got played for suckers. Though I doubt they'll ever admit it.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-07-2010 at 12:19 PM.
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    So who should pay for the services of government?

    At the national level roads, security, defense and a host of other things are the services of government. Even the national parks (though I would support full privatization and the selling off of some assets) and a much more limited EPA.

    Providing a full range of services to folks unwilling to work or unable to work because of a series of bad choices on my dime is not a government's job. Taking care of kids and the elderly is, a a limited extent, but certainly not adults.

    The tax rate should be even for all incomes and no refunds or child credits.

    I would like to have a nickel for every time I've heard that from someone who fell on hard times and needed to collect unemployment or food stamps to help them get back on their feet. I could have retired years ago.


    On a couple of occasions, I could have used some of those "services" but didn't. I found a way.I have no issue with short term unemployment, but 99 weeks? Really? After about 26, they need to find a way.

    He's never said anyone has more money than they need. You've dissolved into fantasy. Please tell me what country has a higher standard of living with lower taxes that has as lax an immigration of the US. I'll move there.

    He sure did. "After all, how much money is enough?". And I have heard more than 1 liberal ask the same question or state "nobody needs to be that rich". Many of your kind truly believe that wealth is evil and that nobody should have that much money. They honestly believe that the poor and middle class have the right to the money of the rich.

    You must not believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. I believe it is part of being a good citizen to pay taxes in order to ensure that society is protected, educated, able to conduct commerce to provide for those opportunities, and to provide a safety net for those who have fallen on hard times. Your belief is the typical IGM mindset that believes no one but yourself has provided for your opportunities. It ignores that no one has invaded our nation since the early 19th century, that the populace is educated (you may be one of the few that is private school educated), or that simple things like hot and cold running water exist, an adequate food supply exists, and the infrastructure to get it to market. I'm not surprised, you've never shown yourself to be much of a deep thinker.


    I actually do, however, that should be a voluntary thing. As a taxpayer, it's not my job to pay for the food, housing, medical care, utilities and now even cell phones of those in society who seem to think that it's perfectly acceptable not to work usually because of some BS "reason" or self-caused problem and live off my back. Sorry, that's not my job. And it sure ain't the responsibility of the rich. it's the responsibility of each person to do what they need to do to take care of themselves.

    As I said, kids and elderly, that's a different tune. But adults of working age, you're on your own.

  17. #77
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    At the national level roads, security, defense and a host of other things are the services of government. Even the national parks (though I would support full privatization and the selling off of some assets) and a much more limited EPA.
    So who should pay for the services of government? Here's a quote from from former OMB Director David Stockman:

    Two years after the crisis on Wall Street, it has been announced that bonuses this year will be $144 billion, the highest in history. That's who's going to get this tax cut on the top, you know, 2 percent of the population. They don't need a tax cut. They don't deserve it. And, therefore, what we have to do is focus on Main Street, and that means getting our house in order fiscally, not tax cuts that we can't afford.
    The group that caused this disaster are the ones you're defending. You're problem is you believe you're part of that group. The reality is they more than likely hate you and would kick you to the curb if it benefitted them.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Providing a full range of services to folks unwilling to work or unable to work because of a series of bad choices on my dime is not a government's job. Taking care of kids and the elderly is, a a limited extent, but certainly not adults.
    Making the assumption the opportunities are there. Where? Giving tax cuts to people who aren't hiring isn't going to cause them to hire anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The tax rate should be even for all incomes and no refunds or child credits.
    Funny. Which conservative is running on that platform for election? I didn't see one.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    On a couple of occasions, I could have used some of those "services" but didn't. I found a way.I have no issue with short term unemployment, but 99 weeks? Really? After about 26, they need to find a way.
    Got it. Socialism might be okay when it benefits you. Given your loathing for socialism, I'm sure you won't collect Social Security or Medicare when you're eligible.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    He sure did. "After all, how much money is enough?". And I have heard more than 1 liberal ask the same question or state "nobody needs to be that rich". Many of your kind truly believe that wealth is evil and that nobody should have that much money. They honestly believe that the poor and middle class have the right to the money of the rich.
    Which isn't what you quoted. And "more than one liberal" is not an exact quote from Obama. In some cases I would agree. Especially those individuals who have made millions contracting with the government. A great example. Staunch conservative Ross Perot founded EDS. Guess which customer made him a millionaire and started him on his way to wealth. A contract with the Social Security Administration. He's not alone. There are hundreds if not thousands of folks who got wealthy contracting for the government. All the ones I've met have one thing in common. They believe government spends too much except for the taxation that benefits them.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I actually do, however, that should be a voluntary thing. As a taxpayer, it's not my job to pay for the food, housing, medical care, utilities and now even cell phones of those in society who seem to think that it's perfectly acceptable not to work usually because of some BS "reason" or self-caused problem and live off my back. Sorry, that's not my job. And it sure ain't the responsibility of the rich. it's the responsibility of each person to do what they need to do to take care of themselves.
    It also isn't my job to pay for any number of things supported by conservatives. I pay my taxes and don't take deductions for those I don't believe should be deductible. What's your point? It's why we live in a representative republic.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As I said, kids and elderly, that's a different tune. But adults of working age, you're on your own.
    Said like a true christian. You make the assumption none of those currently unemployed want to be employed. I don't believe that is the case.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-07-2010 at 12:56 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  18. #78
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    I don't know about anyone else, but since Tuesdays election ,Gas prices here have risen 13 cents a gallon. That must be how the republicans are going to take care of the "WORKING " class folks

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    I don't know about anyone else, but since Tuesdays election ,Gas prices here have risen 13 cents a gallon. That must be how the republicans are going to take care of the "WORKING " class folks
    Actually that's pretty typical as supplies lower somewhat this time of ear as more crude is directed to the production of heating oil and some refineries make the switch to winter gasoline blends.

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    The group that caused this disaster are the ones you're defending. You're problem is you believe you're part of that group. The reality is they more than likely hate you and would kick you to the curb if it benefitted them.

    Ya, right.

    The problem was caused by the collapse of the housing market triggered by the simple fact that many folks who never should have gotten mortgages back in the 90's (thanks to legislation by Frank and Dodd to promote the "american dream" of home ownership to all) couldn't continue to pay them.

    Bottom line, there are folks that were never meant to own because they simply could never afford a house, howver the liberal dems didn't realize it and attempted to integrate them into the housing market.

    As far as your comments about bonuses - typical liberal crap. Folks should be able to earn whatever they can earn, and they should be allowed to keep it and spend it. Giving back a higher percentage than joe blow is simply unamerican.

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