Thread: New Pumper?

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    Default New Pumper?

    Hello all,

    My department is looking at getting a new pumper (Pierce Puc)... Could you please help me out with pro's and con's of this pumper... Also my department has 100% Hale pumps and the Pierce has a Darley...

    Thanks for any and all help....

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    Just put ours in service in August. The PUC seems to be a good concept offering up much more compartment space on a shorter wheel base. It has its limitations (size so far, 1500gpm max i believe) and with a mostly computer operated pump panel it takes a while to get used to. Also, it was a little interesting building the truck due to the differences in design and configuration. We used to be a Waterous department, but have had no problems with the darley pump thus far. Biggest down side is the price tag. Good luck
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    First, welcome to the forum. Be prepared for a lot of people to give you a hard time because you mentioned Brand P, FYI.

    Anyhoo, the PUC can generally give you a lot of compartment space in a fairly small wheelbase vehicle - it's big selling point. We replaced a Pierce heavy duty rescue pumper (look at the HDRP series on the Pierce website if you're not familiar with it) with a PUC and lost only 6 cubic feet of compartment space. It was quite a feat.

    The pump on the PUC doesn't use the transmission driveshaft for power like most mid-ship pumps do. Instead, it uses a REPTO (rear-engine power-take-off), which is a separate shaft that comes off the back of the motor. This allows pump-and-roll standard on the vehicle. The REPTO is the same thing that is used to turn the drums on cement mixers.

    There's a been a lot of talk about the standard 1500gpm rating on the PUC being difficult to reach, especially without using dual suction hoses (which is permissible under NPFA 1901). Guess you could always just rate it as a 1250gpm pump...

    Use the search feature here on the forums (search "PUC") and you'll see a lot of discussion about this rig. Some people really like 'em, others say it's nothing but a marketing gimmick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasFireWater1977 View Post
    Hello all,

    My department is looking at getting a new pumper (Pierce Puc)... Could you please help me out with pro's and con's of this pumper... Also my department has 100% Hale pumps and the Pierce has a Darley...

    Thanks for any and all help....
    You have a start on the cons. Can you list why you (or someone) thinks you need the brand P fad of the season rather than a "normal" pumper?

    Actually, I believe there is a planetary power divider w/PTO sandwiched beween the engine and the Allison.

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    My old dept bought 6 of them on Velocity chassis. I've been out the game a while now, but here are some issues.

    Bad glare inside from the windshield.

    Blind spots from the "A" pilars. Note, these have the "normal" mirrors on them, not the 111 or "school bus" mirrors. They looked at going to the 111 style mirrors, but apparently Pierce builds the cab with extra structure in the roof of the cab to support these mirrors. If you don't order the rig with 111 mirrors they don't put the extra structure in and you can't retro fit them.

    The fastening system securing the net that keeps your cross lays from flying out isn't the greatest.

    SCBA may bonk the rig when you bend over to make a hose connection a the little panel, or go to pull a preconnect.

    Preconnects are supplied from the top of the cross lay instead of the bottom. You may have come up with a different hose load.

    An electric motor opens the main intakes. There is no manual overide to open them should they decide to take a dump.

    The tank to pump valve is also electric. I would prefer a good 'ol pull handle myself. I think it is done this way so you can pump and roll with out ever having to get out of the cab to engage the pump, open the tank and turn on the foam system.

    Some nice things.....

    Exhaust exits out through the top of the rig. No more diesel smoke in your face when you go to open a compartment. Just don't park under a tree during an engine regeneration.

    As others have said, good manuverability.

    It rains here a lot so I liked the roll up door over the "big" pump panel.

    Again, some of this stuff may have been addressed by Pierce since we bought ours. Here is link to the PUC manual. It might answer more of your questions.

    https://www.pierceparts.com/index.ph...pdf?attachment
    Last edited by TVFR9923; 11-03-2010 at 07:39 PM. Reason: Clarification

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    Congrats on the new pumper!

    Please let us all know what flavor of Kool-Aid the delivery tech serves when he gets there.
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    There should be no problems at all with a properly installed Darley pump. They are a world wide supplier of fire pumps and have won several contracts supplying portable fire pumps to the military. Add to that the fact that Darley has been in business for over a hundred years.

    No, I am not affiliated with WS Darley in any manner. Nor am I a sales agent for anyone marketing Darley pumps or any other Darley product.
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    TVFR,

    A number of the things that you mention are chassis-specific and customer-specific, not PUC specific.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    TVFR,

    A number of the things that you mention are chassis-specific and customer-specific, not PUC specific.
    That's true. I clarified it it's the Velocity chassis. Thanks.

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    TV, The exhaust must be specific to you guys. Marion 1 have exhaust exiting officer side low. Heard a rumor you guys are offloading yours...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCFire09 View Post
    TV, The exhaust must be specific to you guys. Marion 1 have exhaust exiting officer side low. Heard a rumor you guys are offloading yours...
    Hmmmm, that's interesting. Like I said I've been gone for a little while now. I know they talked about getting rid of a newer quint at one time, but I hadn't heard about the PUCs. I'll have to look into that.

    What motor is Marion Co using? Ours have Detroits. I just assumed they all exited out the top through the crow's nest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TVFR9923 View Post
    Hmmmm, that's interesting. Like I said I've been gone for a little while now. I know they talked about getting rid of a newer quint at one time, but I hadn't heard about the PUCs. I'll have to look into that.

    What motor is Marion Co using? Ours have Detroits. I just assumed they all exited out the top through the crow's nest.

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    I don't believe you can have the vertical exhaust anylonger bcause of EPA 2010, could be wrong though.

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    Default Thanks for the help!

    Thanks for all the info!! Big help... We are looking at other trucks also. We just looked at a Rosenbauer Cenurion "very nice"...

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    A couple of Centurions have been delivered in VA recently. These are a bolted/modular design, as opposed to the welded designed offered in some of the other Rosenbauer products.

    Both have their own strengths and weaknesses, just educate yourself about them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasFireWater1977 View Post
    Thanks for all the info!! Big help... We are looking at other trucks also. We just looked at a Rosenbauer Cenurion "very nice"...
    Maybe try a Sutphen... you can choose either a stainless body, or an aluminum body. It is a nice truck and cab/chassis/pump module/rear body are all Sutphen made. Here is a picture of a Shield pumper that we got back in January. Great truck, and it was much cheaper than the competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Cobra View Post
    Maybe try a Sutphen... you can choose either a stainless body, or an aluminum body. It is a nice truck and cab/chassis/pump module/rear body are all Sutphen made. Here is a picture of a Shield pumper that we got back in January. Great truck, and it was much cheaper than the competition.
    How did I know you were going to post about a Sutphen?

    To the OP, if this was going to be a first out pumper then IMHO I would go with a standard midship pump. The PUC doesn't seem too bad for a rig more set up to be a rescue pumper. It's all about how you intend to use the rig.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    There should be no problems at all with a properly installed Darley pump. They are a world wide supplier of fire pumps and have won several contracts supplying portable fire pumps to the military. Add to that the fact that Darley has been in business for over a hundred years.

    No, I am not affiliated with WS Darley in any manner. Nor am I a sales agent for anyone marketing Darley pumps or any other Darley product.
    Let's just say our experiences differ. Hale pumps here for reliability reasons. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Let's just say our experiences differ. Hale pumps here for reliability reasons. T.C.
    My volly FD has used Hale, Waterous, Darley and Barton American. The only pump we have ever had fail was a Hale...

    I guess we didn't learn because our three front line rigs all are Hale pumps!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Cobra View Post
    Maybe try a Sutphen... you can choose either a stainless body, or an aluminum body. It is a nice truck and cab/chassis/pump module/rear body are all Sutphen made. Here is a picture of a Shield pumper that we got back in January. Great truck, and it was much cheaper than the competition.
    That suckphen grill and headlight configuration is the ugliest thing going in the fire apparatus business.

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    I actually think the Sutphens are some of the best looking trucks out there. Now, if you want to see ugly, let me help you out.




    And my personal most ugly fire apparatus...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasFireWater1977 View Post
    Hello all,

    My department is looking at getting a new pumper (Pierce Puc)... Could you please help me out with pro's and con's of this pumper... Also my department has 100% Hale pumps and the Pierce has a Darley...

    Thanks for any and all help....

    Worked on a few lately. The choice of a PUC (or other manufacturer similar styles) is compltetly dependant upon your intended use in YOUR department. Personally, as a first due FIRE engine, I don't like them. The hosebeds are usually very high, and the crosslays are awful. They are loaded in trays which must be removed to pack, and a have been very tight. There is also limited room between the body and cab to pull them if you are a "big" guy (Or gal!).

    That being said, if you are looking for a heavy-rescue with some engine company capabilities, it may suit you fine. The ones i have seen have placed heavy emphasis on compartment capacity rather than real-world fire engine ops.

    As always, it comes down to how YOU spec them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FD1976 View Post
    Worked on a few lately. The choice of a PUC (or other manufacturer similar styles) is compltetly dependant upon your intended use in YOUR department. Personally, as a first due FIRE engine, I don't like them. The hosebeds are usually very high, and the crosslays are awful. They are loaded in trays which must be removed to pack, and a have been very tight. There is also limited room between the body and cab to pull them if you are a "big" guy (Or gal!).

    That being said, if you are looking for a heavy-rescue with some engine company capabilities, it may suit you fine. The ones i have seen have placed heavy emphasis on compartment capacity rather than real-world fire engine ops.

    As always, it comes down to how YOU spec them.
    That's one aspect I do like - the trays for loading hose. Properly sized, they're fantastic and we have a couple extra at the firehouse preloaded so we can just slide dry hose in and leave the wet stuff to be hung when it isn't 3 am. We have two engines where the trays are great, nicely designed, well sized. The newest one, the engineer should be flogged with wet 1-3/4 for thinking that 200 feet would actually fit...
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    We just ordered ours in August and should be able to pick it up around the end of January. Talking about the crosslays. We removed the standard crosslays from the center of the truck and put speedlays into our 24" front bumper. Have room for (2) 200' lays of 1 3/4" lines. Our neighbors did this on their rear mount and love it. Easy reloading and access. This will be repalcing our used ambulance that we use as a rescue. Also our current engine is 21 years old. This will be our first out truck to all calls. Mostly rescue and ems so we felt this gave us enough storage to combine our rescue and engine all in one and still have a little room for "toys". It will have 1000 gallons of water, 10kw hydraulic gen, light tower, coffin cabinets and of course my favorite will be the Q! We also added a camera on the driver side quartz light with the screen on the pump panel. Our current engine is a top mount and to ease everyone that if the truck doesn't get positioned right in a farm yard or street, they will still be able to see what is going on. Man I could ramble on and on about this truck. Never been a "P" flavored kool aid drinker but after seeing first hand the fit and finish compared to the rest I'm glad we went that direction. Can't wait until we can back her into the station!!!

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