1. #1
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default Should I change MY policy...

    This is bugging me tonight, and wondering if I should change my OOS options/policies. As well, if you were the officer of the rig, would you over ride my OOS to make a AFD run.

    I had several repair requests for a truck for a few items that needed to be taken care of. None of which would have stopped the truck from doing its job. But at the same time, would take about an hour or so to complete. I asked the officer to go OOS so they wouldn't get hit with any EMS, or BS runs. The engine would cover them. I told him if they got tones for a fire, they could go. OK, no problem.

    About 20 mins later, tones go off for an AFD run, about 10 blocks from the station. The engine goes and another truck was called in place of this one. I looked at the officer, and he shook his head no, as in don't worry about it. About 5 minutes later, the Med was dispatched for a burn victim. Nothing as of yet came across as a working fire, just a patient. (the crew was getting antsy) About a minute, maybe 2, the engine called a working fire, and assistance ASAP. Once I heard that, I removed what I needed to so they could make the run. And they did.

    It was a fire in an apartment on the 8th floor of 14, and put out quickly, thank goodness.

    Of all the times I've had tones go off for an AFD, had a rig OOS, NONE, until today have turned into a working fire.

    Unless the repairs needed on any rig would handicap their operations, then they stay OOS. Nothing I can do about that, and they know that as well. Some hate it, when they miss the call. But if the work needed can be done without hurting them, I let them know they can make the fire run.

    Here's my problem. Do I change MY policy and now let engines and trucks make the AFD runs with minor/simple repairs, or take my chances that it won't be another worker???

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,619

    Default

    It's the age old balancing act. None of us ever wants to miss a run. We just never know when that BS alarm call will turn into "THE JOB." At the same time, we want our apparatus in top shape, everything on it working properly. You want to keep it that way; you don't want to let stuff get ahead of you. You don't ever want to hear, "we have this list of stuff that needs to be done and the shop doesn't do it, they only do half of it, they ignore us."

    I guess it's a judgment call. No matter if you're in your shop or in their station, you have to extricate yourself and your tools from whatever you're doing and make sure you didn't leave anything loose. Leaving stuff is too easy to do. Not long ago I was adding coolant when we got a run. I got the jug of coolant and my hand light off, then brought the cab down onto the radiator cap that was still sitting on the rocker cover. Didn't hurt the cap but had blown coolant all over the engine by the time we got back.

    In your case you also have to consider your own work flow. Is there something else you can be doing while they're out? You certainly don't want to be sitting around twiddling your thumbs. Especially now, with some of your city council stirring the pot again.

    And if there is something else you can do, will it get you tied up to the point that you can't easily transition back the their job(s). And another age old mechanic's dilemma - will you go back to exactly where you were on their job before they left, or will you overlook something? Or the same thing on the job you moved over to to fill in the time?

    It looks as if you're doing your part to keep them running as best as you can while maintaining a good sense of the real priority of the department - be where they're needed, when they're needed to be there.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Yesterday I felt guilty because I had them OOS for a AFD run, and they didn't get to run to what ended up being a "worker". Yesterday, I said that won't happen again. You know what, it will happen again. Hopefully, for not another 5 years.

    I guess that is why I get a good welcoming when I go to a station. They know I see and understand the big picture on what they do, and I will do whatever I can to make sure they can do their thing.

    As for standing by idly, I don't. With this call, I knew they would be out for an hour, at least. Knowing that, I move to the next rig/station, and do my thing. I won't put myself, the officer, or the rig, in a compromising position if it gets a run. I know what I was doing, and know where I left off. I returned tonight to finish the repairs on the truck. Knowing where I was at on them, I left them in service. Took 45 minutes, and no runs (go figure).

    I do hear you on the "shop's" side for repairs. But it also goes with "While you're here, can you look at this too? Hasn't worked for 2 weeks." Or "While your here for the engine, can you check this on the Med".

    Do I love my job??? You better believe it.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Oh yeah, as for the city council thing, email me if you have questions. The problem isn't as big as some would like it to be (Jean Stothert and Nabity).

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,239

    Default

    Firemech, It is dependent on why you took the rig out of service.

    Was it for bad brakes, steering, flat tire, transmission, rear end or a spring problem?

    Different things would be a factor for a rig to go OOS.


    A burnt out light bulb[s] in a light bar, strobe module not working, mars light not working or cab lights all out would this have to be taken OOS, leave them as they are and maybe not have to go OOS for repairs.

    There are a lot of variables you as a mechanic and the company officer has to decide.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    95% of the time I always have a chat with the officer AND driver on what I was sent for repairs, and what else they may have, that they didn't write up. The officer usually asks what is involved in the repairs, and estimated time. Then we discuss our options on OOS criteria. If there are alot of minor repairs, we will agree to go OOS so I don't have to worry about EMS or BS runs. This is also optional for the officer on whether to make an AFD run. But, if they get fire tones, they can make the run. Otherwise, the repairs get done then, instead of me getting interrupted, and them having to wait a week for me to finish up. Those repairs that effect their operations, are 50-50, as to whether they are OOS for even fire tones. There are too many tangibles that make it hard to keep a rig OOS for fires.

    Case in point today. While replacing the exhaust flex pipe on a truck, and just removing it completely, fire tones dropped. The truck was OOS. I listened to the dispatch, and they called for the engine and another truck. The truck officer was about 4' from me. I asked if that was his area, and he asked if he could take it, at the same time. 30 seconds later, they were gone. Because of the time, I was able to go back and finish the repairs, 3 hours later. So it had a loud exhaust, big deal. They were able to do what they needed to do.

    And that missing 5%... when I talk to them, the repair is already done.

    I know NFPA guidelines for OOS like the back of my hand. However, it is open for interpretation.

    FM1
    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 11-06-2010 at 01:43 AM.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer
    A burnt out light bulb[s] in a light bar, strobe module not working, mars light not working or cab lights all out would this have to be taken OOS, leave them as they are and maybe not have to go OOS for repairs.
    Emergency lights are the trickiest for OOS repairs, much less should they take themselves OOS until someone gets there to fix it. 1 scenario that I have dealt with, out of many.

    No emergency lights to the rear. They should take themselves out of service. If I get a call saying they have no rear strobe lights, I tell them to go OOS. This is a possible liability to the FD if someone hits them in the rear, and no rear emergency lights are operational.

    Most of the time for emergency lights, like a bulb out on the very end of a 72" rotater light bar, I have them go to a delayed response. If tones drop, I can put it back together, collect my tools, and nose dive off the roof, so they can make the run.

    Make no mistake about it. I want to make sure the rigs can make the big one. If there is a single apparatus that I try to not take OOS, that is the med units. Only if I HAVE TO, do they go OOS.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  8. #8
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    What's an AFD?

    I'm dense and its the weekend, so forgive me.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN
    What's an AFD?

    I'm dense and its the weekend, so forgive me.
    Automatic Fire Detection... Sorry for the confusion.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  10. #10
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Automatic Fire Detection... Sorry for the confusion.

    FM1
    You did the right thing.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Just food for thought......

    The City of Philadelphia has what they call "100" series engines. These are fully stocked, equipped pieces that are ready to go (large fires with call backs, extra manning in the summer time for big events, etc....)

    One thing that they are also used for is when a Mechanic from Shop 2 (the Fire/Cop Automotive Shop) comes to your station to do a PM or make a repair that could place the piece OOS for an extended period. The Shop will arrange for a 100 series piece for you, and they either bring it with them, or you go pick it up before Shop 2 comes out to you. Run comes in while the mechanic is on your front line piece, jump on the 100 series piece.

    Although the way the fleet in Philly is right now, with no money in the budget, the supply of 100 and 200 (not stocked, if you get a 200 piece you have to change over all your hose and equipment) may be getting thin.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Interesting concept. Unfortunately, we don't have reserve rigs that are ready to go. Everything has to be changed over, except for hoses.

    It is a juggle sometimes whether to change over a rig vs repairing it. If I can fix it in the same amount of time as a changeover, then I do. If the time will be excessive, or something else is found, then it will get a changeover. All PM's and major repairs are an automatic changeover.

    One thing nobody has answered yet. If you were the officer and got tones for an AFD, not a fire, would you make the call to go into service and make the run???

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    One thing nobody has answered yet. If you were the officer and got tones for an AFD, not a fire, would you make the call to go into service and make the run???FM1
    If I were the Company Officer, I guess several factors would work their way into the equasion....

    -Is it a repeat offender?

    -What kind of occupancy? (Hospital? Auto Repair? Private Dwelling? Office?)

    -Distance to get there versus distance of the next due company

    -What is the mechanic doing?

    For the most part, for an Automatic Fire Alarm, I would stay put. For a Water Flow alarm however, I might start to get antsy.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    So of Can. / N. of Mexico
    Posts
    869

    Default Oos

    Here the magic number is 4. If the rig is going to be out of service for over 4 hours, change over to a reserve rig is reqiured. Talk about some un-happy campers if we can't get it fixed in 4 hours. Changing over all the equipment plus hose is no fun. How to win friends and influence people.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Thanks for your opinion guys. It really helped.

    FM1
    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 11-10-2010 at 02:35 AM.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    mtg55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    If I were the Company Officer, I guess several factors would work their way into the equasion....

    -Is it a repeat offender?

    -What kind of occupancy? (Hospital? Auto Repair? Private Dwelling? Office?)

    -Distance to get there versus distance of the next due company

    -What is the mechanic doing?

    For the most part, for an Automatic Fire Alarm, I would stay put. For a Water Flow alarm however, I might start to get antsy.
    Right on. Especially the next due travel time. The officer made the call to stay, which even given that it was a fire alarm I'd be okay with. Most of the time you get away with the alarm being accidental/faulty, but you can't win all the time. I think the plan you have currently is more than ok.
    Matt G.
    Battalion Chief
    IACOJ-Member
    FTM-PTB

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,081

    Default

    Speaking from a volunteer's perspective, outside looking in, I think you did right. If you'd removed the part, let the company go, and they'd spent the rest of the day padiddling around while you needed to put it back on, you would have wasted a lot of your valuable time. But when the activity got such that they needed to go, you saw the scale tip as the value of their availability became higher than your efficiency and chose, correctly, to send 'em on.

    Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    I wouldn't feel bad. Sucks to miss a fire, but the works got to get done. Companies are taken out of service much more often, for much worse reasons.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits.


    LMFAO.... Thanks... now I got a runny nose and tears running down my cheeks.

    It isn't so much as feeling bad, but something that made me second guess myself. After talking to a couple other officers from other stations the next day, one put it into perspective, "Sh1t happens".

    Thanks again, for the support.

    FM1
    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 11-15-2010 at 09:32 PM.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits.
    Having worked at three large military installations, I could give a s h i t less if I ever go to another alarm system again. Take the rig out of service, please!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Culture Change Needed?
    By ctporrell in forum Hurricane Katrina & Rita Forums
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-03-2005, 01:11 PM
  2. How many forum posters does it take to change a light bulb?
    By SPIPER in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-15-2005, 10:08 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-30-2004, 01:04 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-19-2004, 11:22 AM
  5. Code 3 intersection Policy
    By LAFireParamedic in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-17-2003, 04:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register