Thread: Help

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    Going to do a final inspection on our pumper/rescue in a couple of days, i have talked to some local FD about how to conduct a final inspection and go lots of ideas. Would anyone care to share ideas, bad experiences, good experiences. I have never done this neither have the other 2 guys i am going with. Thanks and I will post some pics when i get back. Thanks and stay safe. PS the chevron stripping makes me want to have a seizure =)

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    Cool Final Inspections.....

    Check your local FD County Mechanics, State FD Mechanics or whoever does your "Wrench Turning" to ask for advice. Check the surrounding area and see if they have any paperwork you can use to give you a guide. If not, check NFPA 1901 and 1911 and come-up with a document that is user friendly.

    YouTube is also a tool you can use, check there.....
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

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    Take a copy of your spec's with you, and make sure everything you've asked for is on the truck. Check for paint flaws, tire discrepencies, shelving, turtle tile (if you have it), check each door, each latch, wiring chases, light functionality... essentially try everything out, even the seatbelt sensors. Common hickups with new trucks include door-ajar warnings going off when there's no door open, paint flaws, warning light/headlight flasher malfunctions, and lighting (compartment/cab/instrument cluster).

    Hope this helps.
    TruckCommittee.com

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    What Tim said. In addition,check every frame bolt and connector that you can see. Check them to see if they are tight. Put the pump in and out of gear(ours wouldn't shift in, was hitting cold weather pan). Check generators(if equipped)and ancilliary equipment. T.c.

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    I know that you and many on here would not believe this, but some salesmen and factory reps like to try and distract you the night before the inspection by wining and dining you at a local establishment with scantily clad women, and or a large dinner involving steak and lots of alcohol.

    You want to be well-rested, and clear of mind for your inspection. You will be using this piece of apparatus for the next 10 or 20 years. This truck cost you, your organizations and your taxpayers several hundreds of thousands of dollars.
    This is the one time when you want to be an adult and tell the salesman, "ok, I'll take dinner and a beer or two, but that's it."

    You will need several items, and it will be up to the salesman or factory rep to arrange for some of them.
    -A set of your specs, in a three-ring binder, or a set bound with a spiral.
    -black and red pens
    -A yellow grease pencil
    -A legal size tablet
    -A creeper (or two)
    -A flashlight or shop light (or two)

    The more people who are there (preferably ones who know the specs intimately) the better. Have one person start on the interior and work their way to the exterior (including compartments) and have the other guy get on a creeper and do the undercarriage. Start at the front and slowly roll your way down the length of the truck. If you have a Department Mechanic, obviously this will be his bag of doughnuts.

    Read the specs page by page. Check off items that match the spec with black pen, circle deficient or questionable items in red. Use the grease pencil to write on the truck itself if you find any blemishes or mistakes.

    Take your time. When Chiefengineer11 and I did our 2007 Toyne/Spartan, it took us the better part of 8+ hours.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    The previous posts are all on the mark. Go page by page and work at YOUR pace not the salesmans. Also sit down and do a corrections / job sheet AT the factory BEFORE you leave! Don't do it over dinner and distractions. When you go out for dinner after the inspection...enjoy yourself for all the hardwork.

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    In addition to FWDbuff's list of items I would bring a tape measure and a framing square. You want to ensure that the cab, body, and storage compartments have been built to spec. You also want to ensure compartments are square. I went to a plant in South Carolina in 2004 for an in process inspection and one side of the body was out of square with the other side by a couple of inches. It was bad enough to be obvious with the naked eye.

    Make sure all doors open and close easily, don't buy the B.S. that the roll up doors "just need adjusted" the doors should operate easily. After you have inspected everything drive it and then reinspect it. There can be week places on the body that can crack under the flex that a normal drive will cause. The flexing is normal not the cracking, same builder in S.C. on our final inspection.

    Take plenty of pictures with a digital camera you may need to refer to them later.

    I am going this week for an in process inspection on our new rescue/pumper. I expect it to take the better part of 8 hours. Even when I go for final inspections on an ambulance I usually spend 7-8 hours. Don't go into the inspection process thinking it is an easy job. It can be alot of work and can be very stressful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I know that you and many on here would not believe this, but some salesmen and factory reps like to try and distract you the night before the inspection by wining and dining you at a local establishment with scantily clad women, and or a large dinner involving steak and lots of alcohol.
    I have always preferred to have the inspection prior to any company sponsored events. But, yeah, what he said.

    Get the inspection done, line by line with the legally binding specifications before anything else. If there is any kind of problem it will give the company time to respond while you are still in town. That is the main reason for having the acceptance at the plant where the manufacturer has all resources at hand. After that, a meal is not a great extravagance and most builders oblige.

    From what I have experienced and seen over the years, it is usually the dealer and the customers that go over the top, recently, at least.


    You want to be well-rested, and clear of mind for your inspection. You will be using this piece of apparatus for the next 10 or 20 years. This truck cost you, your organizations and your taxpayers several hundreds of thousands of dollars.
    This is the one time when you want to be an adult and tell the salesman, "ok, I'll take dinner and a beer or two, but that's it."

    You will need several items, and it will be up to the salesman or factory rep to arrange for some of them.
    -A set of your specs, in a three-ring binder, or a set bound with a spiral.
    -black and red pens
    -A yellow grease pencil
    -A legal size tablet
    -A creeper (or two)
    -A flashlight or shop light (or two)
    I would add:
    -Tape measure
    -Flashlight
    -Unfortunately, a square
    -Copies of drawings from pre-construction and/or pre-paint conferences
    -Copies of all change orders
    -Pamphlet 1901, Latest Revision
    -A good attitude


    The more people who are there (preferably ones who know the specs intimately) the better. Have one person start on the interior and work their way to the exterior (including compartments) and have the other guy get on a creeper and do the undercarriage. Start at the front and slowly roll your way down the length of the truck. If you have a Department Mechanic, obviously this will be his bag of doughnuts.

    Read the specs page by page. Check off items that match the spec with black pen, circle deficient or questionable items in red. Use the grease pencil to write on the truck itself if you find any blemishes or mistakes.
    Rather than having people set off in different directions I would suggest following the order of the specifications. Address every item, one at a time. Start a list of deviations that you expect to be resolved. There will be deviations. After the specs have been read through, address specific items of particular concern. Keep a list. Refer to it often.

    Take your time. When Chiefengineer11 and I did our 2007 Toyne/Spartan, it took us the better part of 8+ hours.
    And, we all know that Breda is a world renown den of sin. Sinfully good food perhaps?

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    All good advice thus far. One problem I've had with some first-timers is they get caught up in the OOOHH AAAHHH of a new fire truck and want to drool over their departments new apparatus. There's no way to prevent this, so here's how I deal with it.

    When you get to the plant, give them a half-hour to mull over the truck. Then get everyone together and re-focus. This is a business trip and you have business to attend to. Have one person read the specs starting at page 1. When you read out an item, the other person(s) look for it on the truck and confirm. Make notes in your spec. After you ensure everything is on the truck you paid for, it's time for a shakedown cruise. Drive the apparatus, operate the pump, light tower, ladder racks, aerial, HVAC, generator and anything else that might malfunction.

    Conduct an inspection of fit and finish, also underneath as others have said. It's not unusual to find fluid leaks (motor oil, hydraulic fluid) on a final.

    Finally, make a "punch list" of items that need to be corrected and go over them with your factory rep.

    That's it. You're done until the acceptance inspection.

    C6

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    Excellent advice so far!

    When we (the apparatus committee at work) do our finals, we have the dealer supply us with a table and chairs, where one member will sit with the approved* specs and read them line-by-line while the other members check everything. Check the axle tags (right model and weight rating?), motor tag (right model, horsepower & torque rating?), transmission, pump....everything.

    (* the approved specs will likely not be the specs that you sent out for bid, rather, they will be the original specs plus any agreed-upon changes done at the engineering meeting done after you awarded the bid)

    If you see something that's not right, make a note of it, point it out to your sales rep, and if it doesn't meet spec, make them change it! Of course, they might have taken liberty during construction that actually exceeds your specification ... that could be a plus for you.

    Many customers have gone home with a rig that didn't meet spec because they're too excited about getting their first new rig in 20 years, and feel like they'll just "deal with" whatever the deficiency is. Don't be one of those customers. If it needs to be changed, and you have to go home and wait a couple of weeks for your changes to be completed, then do it! A couple of week delay for a rig you'll have for 10-20 years is a small price to pay.

    Best of luck, please let us know how it goes!
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    Everything so far has been spot on.

    I have found that you sometimes need to drag the sales rep under the truck with you so that he can see what you want or need fixed because sometimes telling him is just not good enough. It seems to me that some sales reps don't really care much about the underside of the truck and will blow off any issues you find on the underside. The first time I tell them what the problem is and if its not fixed, me and the sales rep take a road trip on creepers.

    The main thing I am looking for is that everything is mounted properly and tight, any oil leaks, any hoses or lines rubbing or kinked, and anything else that might cause a problem or I have a question about.

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    (From what I have experienced and seen over the years, it is usually the dealer and the customers that go over the top, recently, at least.)

    If what you mean is the dealer and/or customers seem to be overly "picky" at the inspection, its cuz they should be. The dept spent good money on an apparatus and want issues corrected. The dealer spent good money getting the job and its in his/her best interest to make sure the dept feels good about their purchase. The dept and the dealer will have to live with that apparatus for a long time, the folks at the manufacturer do not. The manufacturers shop floor folks and their superiors can do more for their future business at the final inspection than at any other time by showing pride in what they do and hearing criticisms with an open mind and taking care of issues before releasing the final product.

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    As we all know, apparatus specs aren't necessarily written in a sequence that's easy follow when you're looking at the vehicle. One thing Buff and I did before going for the final was to "cut and paste" the specs so that they would read from the top of the truck to the bottom and from the front to the back. We also did the same thing only back to front.

    That made it alot easier to follow as we checked it over. He started at one end and I started at the other. We met in the middle and continued on. That way each of us checked the entire truck, but from opposite directions. In some cases we would stop and consult each other.

    I suppose that if you wanted to get into mischief in Breda you could, but you would have to have inside help. And you would still have to go the 12 miles back to Carroll where the nearest motel is.

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    Great list so far. You can never get too detailed on the final or any in-process inspection.

    A couple of things to add


    As a volunteer department we do not have inhouse mechanics, However we took the owner of our repair shop with us to look at items such as wires that may become pinched, hoses that could rub against chassis or body parts, checking components for belt tighness, fluid levels (since this is after the pump cert things can loosen). Many items in the spec can be accomplished in multiple ways - make sure they are done in a manner that will hold up for the long term

    You need to make sure that any problems are clearly understood by the people at the plant that will be making the corrctions, not just the sales rep. They need to understand your expectations. After the list is complete go back over each item with them to resolve issues and sumtimes define an alternative fix.

    Make sure any performance spec item (x amount of hose, acceleration requirments with full load, etc) are specifically noted to be assessed later. We had a truck that was built to the drawing but the hose bed calculation was wrong from engineering. We accepted the truck at final inspection and then reviewd the performance items upon delivery. It was shoor 300' of 5". They built us a new truck.

    Overall, it should be a fun day. You finally see the rewslt of your efforts

    Good luck,

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffp20 View Post
    (From what I have experienced and seen over the years, it is usually the dealer and the customers that go over the top, recently, at least.)

    If what you mean is the dealer and/or customers seem to be overly "picky" at the inspection, its cuz they should be. The dept spent good money on an apparatus and want issues corrected. The dealer spent good money getting the job and its in his/her best interest to make sure the dept feels good about their purchase. The dept and the dealer will have to live with that apparatus for a long time, the folks at the manufacturer do not. The manufacturers shop floor folks and their superiors can do more for their future business at the final inspection than at any other time by showing pride in what they do and hearing criticisms with an open mind and taking care of issues before releasing the final product.
    Actually, I was referring to the wining and dining, booze and sex angle. I fully expect customers to be vigilant regarding meeting specs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    I suppose that if you wanted to get into mischief in Breda you could, but you would have to have inside help. And you would still have to go the 12 miles back to Carroll where the nearest motel is.
    So you wouldn't recommend adding a few days to your trip to do some sightseeing in Breda?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    So you wouldn't recommend adding a few days to your trip to do some sightseeing in Breda?
    It may be my age showing through, but I really like the place. It's a truly nice example of small town mid-America. But beside Toyne, the attractions are Snappy Popcorn, lots of windmills, and, of course, Red's. And I am trying to arrange a side trip to Schleswig to see Toyne T.I.D. #1.
    Last edited by chiefengineer11; 11-15-2010 at 03:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    It may be my age showing through, but I really like the place. It's a truly nice example of small town mid-America. But beside Toyne, the attractions are Snappy Popcorn, lots of windmills, and, of course, Red's. And I am trying to arrange a side trip to Schleswig to see Toyne T.I.D. #1.
    At the risk of sounding ignorant, I don't know about Red's or the T.I.D. #1. If you'll contact me off-forum, I have some questions to ask you.

    C6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffp20 View Post
    (From what I have experienced and seen over the years, it is usually the dealer and the customers that go over the top, recently, at least.)

    If what you mean is the dealer and/or customers seem to be overly "picky" at the inspection, its cuz they should be. The dept spent good money on an apparatus and want issues corrected. The dealer spent good money getting the job and its in his/her best interest to make sure the dept feels good about their purchase. The dept and the dealer will have to live with that apparatus for a long time, the folks at the manufacturer do not. The manufacturers shop floor folks and their superiors can do more for their future business at the final inspection than at any other time by showing pride in what they do and hearing criticisms with an open mind and taking care of issues before releasing the final product.
    As a former dealer, I was very picky. I was the apparatus manufacturers customer and the department was my customer. I wanted to sell another piece of apparatus to this department later and I also wanted to use this piece to show other customers. I needed to be picky! If the sales rep or dealer doesn't appear to be responsive, I would be concerned.

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    Wink Due time!

    Well today is the day, and for those of you that must know, I am in carroll. =). Wish me luck and I will update tonight or tomorrrow. But it is going to be a long day. Thanks for all the good pointers/advice, I got a list of stuff to do and I feel like I am going to be here for days, but I got a group of three guys to help. Thanks

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    You'll do fine. You've got a lot of good advice here, and the crew in the next town over from Carroll are very helpful and open. You'll probably miss something, there are so many things that aren't on the checklist that you expect are just standard, which may or may not be. We found that having trust in the builder helped as they stood behind the truck they built us, and we're still very happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firebill911 View Post
    Well today is the day, and for those of you that must know, I am in carroll. =). Wish me luck and I will update tonight or tomorrrow. But it is going to be a long day. Thanks for all the good pointers/advice, I got a list of stuff to do and I feel like I am going to be here for days, but I got a group of three guys to help. Thanks
    Good luck with your trip. It sounds like my trip itinerary is exactly 2 weeks following yours.

    I know you're busy but we are all anxious to see photos of your "new arrival."

    C6
    Last edited by Command6; 11-16-2010 at 09:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    At the risk of sounding ignorant, I don't know about Red's or the T.I.D. #1. If you'll contact me off-forum, I have some questions to ask you.

    C6
    Chief, my home computer is down, in the shop for repairs so I don't have access to my full e-mail address book. I'm sure you're in it somewhere. I'm trying to see how to set this thing up so I can use their system. In the meantime, E-mail me at chiefengineer11@verizon.net. - Sam

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    Talking Done!

    Well it was a long day and the manufacture was wonderful. No pressure and spent most of the day checking it out. I fly home tomorrow and will post some pics next couple of days, very impressive quality craftsmenship. It is nice to actually design and then find someone to build what you want. Thanks to you all again.

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    FireBill did you check out the gravy machine at the Carrolton? Damndest thing I've ever seen.

    Hey Toyne guys who are on Facebook, go to "Friends of Toyne" and post pics or comments.

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