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    Exclamation Should U be pushed over?

    OK so I m a FF/Paramedic with just about 4 yrs on the job. We have in our department a Fire Inspection department that runs Mon- Fri 0900-1700. Not much is needed for that beside ur fire inspector classes which alot of us have. These guys/gals get a 10% increase for being upstairs and for having that cert about $40 more. Heres the question. Some have asked to come back to the floor to work as FF/Emt's or FF/Paramedics or what ever their last postion was. Most of the guys that are coming down have been out of the loop for over 5 yrs. I have a funny feeling that they are going to try to use their time on the job (counting the time they spent upstairs) to get out of doing house duties and running on the busy trucks. I personally feel that they should be able to come back down but understand that ppl have more time on the floor then them...(if they left with less time then the lowest guy that would make them lower in rank). We pick what station and vacation u will have based on the time on the job as a FF. Please try to look at it from a point of view from someone like me that has been floating around and being on the busy trucks to now have someone come in and pull a fast one over the jr guys.
    Last edited by fire2007; 11-15-2010 at 03:24 PM.

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    Proper spelling , punctuation and grammar would make your post a whole lot easier to understand.
    If you are asking should someone who has been assigned to fire prevention have to go back to the bottom of the food chain seniority wise, probably not. They still have a hire date from when they were first hired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire2007 View Post
    Please try to look at it from a point of view from someone like me that has been floating around and being on the busy trucks to now have someone come in and pull a fast one over the jr guys.
    Boo Hoo.

    No one's pulling a fast one on anybody. They have seniority on you, and they get the benefits that come with that.

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    Would you accept a free Shamwow from the department to soak up your tears?
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    If they have been there longer than you, they have seniority. A particular assignment has no bearing on that fact. That's like saying a Captain going back to a truck has to start in the back. Pardon me, but you are a junior to anyone that has been there longer.

    Having done about every job in a department, fire investigations, inspections and code enforcement is worth a lot more than a bump of 10% + $40 per month. If you think it is gravy work, then you should try it. It is a necessary evil that we must do.

    What you have not told us is if these people are assigned, or request the assignment. That has a lot of bearing. If they are assigned and have no choice, then by contract or agreement, they can return to their previous duties without penalty, If they put in for it, the same usually applies, because some people have no business doing those jobs. On the other hand, some people do that job and are quite good at it and comfortable with it. But you have to be a self-starter and motivated.

    My advice is put in your time and worry about real problems.
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    To do the job upstairs correctly you need alittle more then classes, which they have they more then likely have the dedication to do the job correctly

    And they also give up two days off every third day

    And sometimes they have to come back to shift to be able to promote

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire2007 View Post
    OK so I m a FF/Paramedic with just about 4 yrs on the job. We have in our department a Fire Inspection department that runs Mon- Fri 0900-1700. Not much is needed for that beside ur fire inspector classes which alot of us have. These guys/gals get a 10% increase for being upstairs and for having that cert about $40 more. Heres the question. Some have asked to come back to the floor to work as FF/Emt's or FF/Paramedics or what ever their last postion was. Most of the guys that are coming down have been out of the loop for over 5 yrs. I have a funny feeling that they are going to try to use their time on the job (counting the time they spent upstairs) to get out of doing house duties and running on the busy trucks. I personally feel that they should be able to come back down but understand that ppl have more time on the floor then them...(if they left with less time then the lowest guy that would make them lower in rank). We pick what station and vacation u will have based on the time on the job as a FF. Please try to look at it from a point of view from someone like me that has been floating around and being on the busy trucks to now have someone come in and pull a fast one over the jr guys.
    The firehouse isn't democracy and it ain't utopia... suck it up and deal with it.

    If you think doing fire prevention/plans review and inspections is gravy... you are wrong. In my position, I deal with fire alarm and sprinkler contractors who are as shady as a stately elm, fire alarm and sprinkler contractors who have no clue, and business owners who whine, complain, gripe, kvetch and bitch that what we require is an impediment to their making a buck... in between being the shift commander, communications officer, PIO and daycare center operator (at times). My lid should have attachments for all the hats I have to wear.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I understand your frustration. However, if they were previously line guys and moved up to prevention, there's probably not much you can do short of filing a grievance, and even then you'll probably end up looking like a dick.

    Our prevention department except for the DC, is non-sworn. Most of those sea donkeys just eat too much and make the uniforms look bad.
    IAFF

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    Are they civi sea donkeys?
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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    Your first post and you are crying a river on members who probably have been there, done it and have seniority on you.

    Get a life bucko.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    The firehouse isn't democracy and it ain't utopia... suck it up and deal with it.

    If you think doing fire prevention/plans review and inspections is gravy... you are wrong. In my position, I deal with fire alarm and sprinkler contractors who are as shady as a stately elm, fire alarm and sprinkler contractors who have no clue, and business owners who whine, complain, gripe, kvetch and bitch that what we require is an impediment to their making a buck... in between being the shift commander, communications officer, PIO and daycare center operator (at times). My lid should have attachments for all the hats I have to wear.
    Well GUESS WHAT? YOU ARE an IMPEDIMENT to those business owners and Contractors. As luck would have it,Marlborough is SMART enough to know that a properly equipped/built building is Safer for the Public and a MUCH better long term value to the City than a shoddy one. So keep crackin those books,knowledge is POWER,hehe T.C.

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    You did not mention whether your FD was union or not.

    If the firefighters have an union agreement with your employer, that agreement would most likely dictate the position classifications and seniority.

    If the firefighters are not union, department (or municipal) policy (if any) would most likely dicate the position classifications and seniority.

    There maybe several issues that may need to be considered when changing classifications. These may include whether the inspections personnel can meet the qualifications for the positions that they are transferring to. Do they still have their applicable EMS certifications? If they are going to be apparatus operators, do they meet the requirements for the apparatus they will drive/operate? Apparatus may have been replaced since they went "upstairs". Are they physically fit to go back to firefighting? Can they meet any applicable standards to use SCBA? Are they trained on newly acquired equipment, such as a thermal imager?

    Even if the inspections personnel are entitled to get back into the fire/EMS positions, they may need to be retrained/tested and/or given a physical exam.

    You should probably let your FD officers take care of this. If there is an union agreement, they will have to follow it. If not, they will have to determine who moves where. Anyway, you will have to see how the chips fall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Well GUESS WHAT? YOU ARE an IMPEDIMENT to those business owners and Contractors. As luck would have it,Marlborough is SMART enough to know that a properly equipped/built building is Safer for the Public and a MUCH better long term value to the City than a shoddy one. So keep crackin those books,knowledge is POWER,hehe T.C.
    Watching "schoolhouse rock" with the grandkids again?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Watching "schoolhouse rock" with the grandkids again?
    Livin' it! Sans the grandkids,hehe T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinKnight View Post
    If they have been there longer than you, they have seniority. A particular assignment has no bearing on that fact. That's like saying a Captain going back to a truck has to start in the back. Pardon me, but you are a junior to anyone that has been there longer.

    Having done about every job in a department, fire investigations, inspections and code enforcement is worth a lot more than a bump of 10% + $40 per month. If you think it is gravy work, then you should try it. It is a necessary evil that we must do.

    What you have not told us is if these people are assigned, or request the assignment. That has a lot of bearing. If they are assigned and have no choice, then by contract or agreement, they can return to their previous duties without penalty, If they put in for it, the same usually applies, because some people have no business doing those jobs. On the other hand, some people do that job and are quite good at it and comfortable with it. But you have to be a self-starter and motivated.

    My advice is put in your time and worry about real problems.

    Chief Knight is Correct in his assessment, (above) and way back at the Start, Island Fire had a VERY Good Point: How you present your Message here is something that will follow you for a long time........ Spelling, Grammer, Composition, and Structure has a lot to do with how others see you at the start. AVOID "Text Message" style writing at all costs. And, I'm with those who quote "Labor Agreement" and "Civil Service Rules" as what dictates how your Seniority works........
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Proper spelling , punctuation and grammar would make your post a whole lot easier to understand.
    White space is your friend...
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    White space is your friend...

    I was gonna mention "Whiteout" but that has a different meaning up there in the "Lake Effect" Country.......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    I was gonna mention "Whiteout" but that has a different meaning up there in the "Lake Effect" Country.......
    Yeah you guys live up there where Whiteouts and Blackouts occur at the same time.

    So would that actually be a Grayout?

    Or since Black and White are opposites, does it cause everything to just vanish creating a huge void?


    I need to quit thinking now since I just blew a fuse in my frontal lobe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinKnight View Post
    So would that actually be a Grayout?

    Or since Black and White are opposites, does it cause everything to just vanish creating a huge void?
    Yes.









    Danged ten letter minimum!
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    First off, is this a joke? Really, seniority to you is how long that person road an engine/truck? Some of those folks were probably putting out fires while you were still in junior high. I know the inspectors from where I came from were experienced firefighters, it's kind of a pre-requisite to be an inspector. On top of that, why are you b***hing about being on a busy engine/truck? What firefighter doesn't want to be on a busy company? I'll be 34 coming out of the Marine Corps and going back into the fire service, I did it for 7 years before that. But I won't be asking to go to a slow company, hell no. I'll be asking for the busiest company in the city, and if they'll let me, a truck company. Nobody's pulling a fast one, they have seniority plain and simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinKnight View Post
    Yeah you guys live up there where Whiteouts and Blackouts occur at the same time.

    So would that actually be a Grayout?

    Or since Black and White are opposites, does it cause everything to just vanish creating a huge void?


    I need to quit thinking now since I just blew a fuse in my frontal lobe.
    We've been having weekly blackouts from all the recent storms :::: & we haven't even seen a snowflake yet.
    Good thing is all the weak tress & limbs will be down before it gets real cold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    We've been having weekly blackouts from all the recent storms :::: & we haven't even seen a snowflake yet.
    Good thing is all the weak tress & limbs will be down before it gets real cold.

    And that translates to a good supply of Firewood..........
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    The mentality you display in you message is the same that caused our department to institute a seniority policy. When we hire you we place you on the ambulances until we hire someone new, then you can bid onto the truck. The senior guys may be nice enough to give you a break but that only happens to the newer people who are respectfull of their positionand seniority. We are finding the younger people do not want to earn the position by riding the ambulance and floating stations. I have also seen that this generation thinks they shouldn't have to do the low man chores, and think that it is unfair to them. They seem to demand respect instead of earning it. The firefighters comming back to the truck are a wealth of knowledge instead of thinking you getting screwed think of it as a blessing and soak up every bit they have. Trust me you will be happy in 10 years when you get to pick your assignment base on hire date when some young bull comes in puffing his chest and demanding respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfpd5041 View Post
    The mentality you display in you message is the same that caused our department to institute a seniority policy. When we hire you we place you on the ambulances until we hire someone new, then you can bid onto the truck. The senior guys may be nice enough to give you a break but that only happens to the newer people who are respectfull of their positionand seniority. We are finding the younger people do not want to earn the position by riding the ambulance and floating stations. I have also seen that this generation thinks they shouldn't have to do the low man chores, and think that it is unfair to them. They seem to demand respect instead of earning it. The firefighters comming back to the truck are a wealth of knowledge instead of thinking you getting screwed think of it as a blessing and soak up every bit they have. Trust me you will be happy in 10 years when you get to pick your assignment base on hire date when some young bull comes in puffing his chest and demanding respect.

    "Rember if you not part of the solution you are part of the problem"
    Halelujah and TESTIFY MY BROTHER!! Too damn true.
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    Originally Posted by rfpd5041
    The mentality you display in your message is the same that caused our department to institute a seniority policy. When we hire you we place you on the ambulances until we hire someone new, then you can bid onto the truck. The senior guys may be nice enough to give you a break but that only happens to the newer people who are respectfull of their position and seniority. We are finding the younger people do not want to earn the position by riding the ambulance and floating stations. I have also seen that this generation thinks they shouldn't have to do the low man chores, and think that it is unfair to them. They seem to demand respect instead of earning it. The firefighters coming back to the truck are a wealth of knowledge instead of thinking you getting screwed think of it as a blessing and soak up every bit they have. Trust me you will be happy in 10 years when you get to pick your assignment based on hire date when some young bull comes in puffing his chest and demanding respect.

    "Remember if you not part of the solution you are part of the problem"
    Originally posted by FWD...
    Halelujah and TESTIFY MY BROTHER!! Too damn true
    Ditto!!!!!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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