Thread: Merger

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    Default Merger

    Our department is facing the possibility of a merger with a surrounding combination department. Have any of you been involved with a merger, or work for a fire board? How do you like it? What do you do with rank and senority?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Engine2308 View Post
    Our department is facing the possibility of a merger with a surrounding combination department. Have any of you been involved with a merger, or work for a fire board? How do you like it? What do you do with rank and senority?

    Rank and Senority should remain the same. Unless they cut out companies and then the Rank may be a problem. Other than that it should be a seamless procedure.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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    Check the Louisville brothers about the city/county merger they did. Be prepared to not hear good things. Also, if I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of mergers in the Indy area.

    Rank and seniority are only two of the issues. Retirement plans/pensions, vacation selection, station assignments, promotional procedures, command & control (ICS) at emergency incidents, apparatus replacement plans...and the list goes on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Rank and Senority should remain the same. Unless they cut out companies and then the Rank may be a problem. Other than that it should be a seamless procedure.
    Maybe I should go into detail more on rank. The department we are looking to merge with has hired Bat. Chiefs that dont even posses even the basic certifications, and never worked for a career department. I have a problem with that. Do you see an issue with it? We have guys that have prepared theirselves for years for these positions and may lose the chance to get them if this happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Engine2308 View Post
    Maybe I should go into detail more on rank. The department we are looking to merge with has hired Bat. Chiefs that dont even posses even the basic certifications, and never worked for a career department. I have a problem with that. Do you see an issue with it? We have guys that have prepared theirselves for years for these positions and may lose the chance to get them if this happens.
    There is a big problems with that. They should have the basic certifications as well as Officer Certifications. Not only this should have a great knowledge of firefighting, safety and suppression techniques in all phases of the job.

    This is going to cause a big problem with the lower ranks. Sounds like the good old boy stuff.

    Plus what boxalarm has said as well .
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    There is a big problems with that. They should have the basic certifications as well as Officer Certifications. Not only this should have a great knowledge of firefighting, safety and suppression techniques in all phases of the job.

    This is going to cause a big problem with the lower ranks. Sounds like the good old boy stuff.

    Plus what boxalarm has said as well .
    I think the good old boy thing hit it on the head. Thanks for your input.

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    Default Merge

    We had a major problem with a Fire Department who was merging with us. There was too many demands and they went to another department. You need to be real careful when you are merging and try to keep as much as you can ...but there is a point where you need to give up things to get things.
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    Merging and consolidating fire departments is a lot like mating elephants....
    It is done at a high level wth a great deal of trampling and trumpeting and takes two years to see the results.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Merging and consolidating fire departments is a lot like mating elephants....
    It is done at a high level wth a great deal of trampling and trumpeting and takes two years to see the results.
    Elephant Mater as a part time job I take it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayDudley View Post
    We had a major problem with a Fire Department who was merging with us. There was too many demands and they went to another department. You need to be real careful when you are merging and try to keep as much as you can ...but there is a point where you need to give up things to get things.
    We are the larger of the two departments. We have around 100 firefighters in the city and the have about 20 paid and 50 volunteers in the county. They have only been a combi department for about 5 or 6 years and was all volunteer prior to that. We have better salaries, benefits, retirements, and insurance. We fear these things may be put on the chopping block, not to mention losing promotions if they were to retain rank. We have SOPs in place and the other department doesn't. They have no set procedure for advancement and have always been a rural department. What would be a fair way to all involved? Would a takeover be more appropriate?
    Last edited by Engine2308; 11-17-2010 at 12:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGITCH View Post
    Elephant Mater as a part time job I take it?
    Nah.. with the career gig, two per diem jobs and my own venture, I'm busy enough!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Around here, THIS is an elephant mater.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    We are looking at a possible merger with the County here. We have had several Union meetings about what would happen to us and rank and seniority usually come up first. Know that everything must be negotiated. As far as we are concerned our crews would fold in "as is". 15 years at our dept will put you a 15 years in the County system. If you are an officer or driver with us then you will be an officer or a driver at the County. Pensions are always going to be a sticking point and the membership will most likely have to vote on what to do with the pension. One thing to watch out for is that your current employer will probably try to stick the pension obligation with the new employer.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

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    Default Merge

    Engine2308...If they are merging with you your positions are safe as their rank is in question. They might lose some spots or rank when they move over to your system. Your officers should be fine as theirs will be demoted or put in open spots. This is the main problem when merging ...everyone likes to keep their position and that doesn't always happen. There is also the problem with seniority and vacation picks so be careful and make sure your department keeps an eye on the ball and nobody gets demoted on your side.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
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    Thanks for the input guys. I think they are looking at forming a fire board that we would work for and it would be funded by both the city and the county, if it were to happen.

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