1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    CKirk922's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Watching From The Sideline Now
    Posts
    260

    Default Tactical deployment of piercing nozzles

    Does anyone have SOPs/SOGs or tactics specific to the deployment of piercing nozzles?

    I'm not looking for the pro vs con arguments for these nozzles. I know from experience that these tools do not cover the vast majority of attack options we employ. I'm looking for the where and when a department will use one (or multiple ones) and I'm looking for where that fits into operating procedures.
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    sfd1992's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Wa
    Posts
    405

    Default

    IMO, writing an SOP/SOG on when/where to use a piercing nozzle would be ridiculous, based on the rarity with which they get used. Do we really need SOPs/SOGs for every piece of equipment or tool on the apparatus?

    Train on it, be familiar with its uses and limitations, and make sure everyone understands how and when to use it.

    This isn't neccesarily directed at you or your department fireeater, but come on. Why does everyone want to make a policy for every piddly little g---d--n thing? Use some common f--king sense people, we're supposed to know our jobs, aren't we?

    BTW, our piercing nozzles are nice and shiny, under a layer of dust.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    JayDudley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,272

    Default Piercing nozzles

    Funny you should mention the piercing nozzles as being seldom used. We had to use them awhile back on a stubborn fire in a sub-basement area of a house. Not deep enough to get firefighter in but just right for the nozzle to work. They were requested by ISO when they were here grading us. We went from a 5 to a 4 and were told to purchase the piercing nozzles. In my 30 plus years as a firefighter it was the first time I've seen them in use.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
    Background Investigator
    IACOJ-Member
    Lifetime Member CSFA
    IAFF Alumni Member

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    CKirk922's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Watching From The Sideline Now
    Posts
    260

    Default

    We have had ours two years and have a set on each engine. We have used them on tough overhauls four times and on the last resort attack on a basement once, on hay bails once, and on a car fire once.

    We "played" with them in training in both live burn and no burn events. The ones we have push 150 gpms in a distributor type pattern of spray. It is a moderate size droplet spray. It moves a lot of water fast and we have extensions that will get us up to twelve feet deep in.

    The thought behind the inquiry was in relation to deep seated basement fires in newer construction homes. If TGIs or full span truss floors are present then it may be prohibitive to try to risk a crew on top of that floor. But the fire is in the basement? Well, ya gotta cross the floor to get to the basement entrance to get to the basement stairwell in most houses. If we can get a quick knock on a heavily involved basement from an indirect attack then we can hit the floor above the initial fire with a bit more confidence. This is thinking a bit outside the box and will create problems unto itself in trying to snuff a fire in an enclosed area (basement).

    Are we afraid to operate above fire in a basement? Respectful of it, but we will make every effort to keep our FFs from dropping into the seat of the fire.

    As for needing an SOP, well, if it is not a required tool to take up under a specific set of circumstances then it wont get used because it is still on the truck when you need it. Our rural firegrounds tend to leave trucks at more than an arms length away from each other. It is time consuming at best to run the distances to get a tool you forgot to bring. We have break apart attack nozzles so it is of minor inconvenience to attach a piercing nozzle. The nozzle has to be there when we need it.
    Last edited by Fireeaterbob; 11-24-2010 at 07:25 PM. Reason: addition
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    why not just write a broad SOP/SOG about circumstances when a piercing nozzle should be considered and then letting your officers make the call? If you really want an SOP/SOG that'd be the way to go.

    If they are too lazy to go back to the truck to retrieve a needed tool, perhaps a piece of paper isn't going to encourage the use of the nozzle.

  6. #6
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    It sounds like you are really asking for an SOP on basement fires, where possible tools are listed or discussed.

    I think its somewhat rare to have an SOP on a specific tool.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber
    CKirk922's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Watching From The Sideline Now
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    why not just write a broad SOP/SOG about circumstances when a piercing nozzle should be considered and then letting your officers make the call? If you really want an SOP/SOG that'd be the way to go.

    If they are too lazy to go back to the truck to retrieve a needed tool, perhaps a piece of paper isn't going to encourage the use of the nozzle.
    Yeh, your probably right on all acounts.

    I dont want to use the term "Lazy", rather un(der)disciplined.
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    CKirk922's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Watching From The Sideline Now
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    It sounds like you are really asking for an SOP on basement fires, where possible tools are listed or discussed.

    I think its somewhat rare to have an SOP on a specific tool.
    I was curious if anyone else was using the tool to good effect. The biggest obstacle we've identified with the tool is getting it there in the first place.
    You are probably correct in the application of an SOP in that when fire is identified in "x" then tools a,b,c,d, and e shall be deployed...ect,ect,ect..
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    CKirk922's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Watching From The Sideline Now
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDudley View Post
    Funny you should mention the piercing nozzles as being seldom used. We had to use them awhile back on a stubborn fire in a sub-basement area of a house. Not deep enough to get firefighter in but just right for the nozzle to work. They were requested by ISO when they were here grading us. We went from a 5 to a 4 and were told to purchase the piercing nozzles. In my 30 plus years as a firefighter it was the first time I've seen them in use.
    They throw such a broad spray that they have helped out in a couple of overhaul crawl spaces to get up and around joists. The only place they dont put water is the cone directly in front of the point.
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

  10. #10
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireeaterbob View Post
    I was curious if anyone else was using the tool to good effect. The biggest obstacle we've identified with the tool is getting it there in the first place.
    You are probably correct in the application of an SOP in that when fire is identified in "x" then tools a,b,c,d, and e shall be deployed...ect,ect,ect..
    This sounds simple, but I would suggest that you practice and drill with it.

    Most guys are going to use the tool they know will work best.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    It doesn't sound like you want an SOG (high-level strategic or tactical guideline) but more of a training guideline. Something you can use with the crew to guide their training on a tool.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Police and Paramedic's Trade Tactical Skills
    By coldfront in forum Kentucky
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-14-2010, 07:16 PM
  2. Piercing nozzles; Pros and Cons anyone?
    By Fireeaterbob in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 11-01-2007, 06:51 PM
  3. What a load! FE Nozzles and hose debate
    By imtxff44 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 10-20-2003, 01:38 PM
  4. AFFF or FFFP
    By Lallo in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-18-2002, 09:34 PM
  5. Piercing Nozzles
    By Hoppy851 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-25-2001, 09:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register