1. #1
    Moderator
    ProgressiveRescue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    228

    Arrow Stabilizing Vertical Movement During a Lower

    Im curious of everybody's methods regarding the stabilization of "downward" movement of a victim during a vertical lower.
    Here is a picture of a method I came up with playing around one day.
    You start with a girth hitch on the foot of the stokes next you wrap the webbing around the patients feet twice going from the outside in "clockwise" now secure the feet together with a square knot. Finally you terminate the webbing with cloves on either side of the stokes (safety knots also of course). From there you begin your patient lashing.
    I know there has to be some great methods floating around out there.
    Stay Safe and Happy Thanksgiving!
    Mike Donahue

    [IMG]

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
    "Training Prepares You...For Moments That Define You

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    FiremanLyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Stokes w/ 3 pieces webbing; diaper harness, chest harness and one to lash them into the basket.

    or

    Stokes w/ 2 webbing; footloops tied w/ overhands, girth hitched to the stoke's rails, then laced up and terminated with trucker's hitches.

    or

    Use a Miller Half Back.

    or

    SKED rigged for vertical.

    So many ways Mike, all very usefull in the proper situation. Key is knowing more than one way to skin a cat, and when to best use each method.
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    stickboy42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    89

    Default

    pt harness on.
    1 yellow web girth hitched at center, 1 tail up to left side of litter near shoulder and secured with round turn and half hitches. mirror this on the right side with other tail.

    2nd yellow web as above but instead of going up with tails you go down towards the knees.

    eliminates the foot wrap as we've found that many pt's have a lower leg injury if they are in a stokes and securing for vertical movement off of a potentially injured extremity might be problematic.

    i agree with lyman though that knowing a variety of methods is key as most situations seem to throw a curve ball at your training and methodology.

    -m

  4. #4
    Moderator
    ProgressiveRescue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Great attitude! Unfortunately there's a lot of people out there that think if they learn one way of doing things thats the only way. Rescue work is a thinking mans game....The more ways to accomplish a task the better.
    If you have any pics of your techniques please post them.
    Stay safe and enjoy your turkey today.
    Mike Donahue
    "Training Prepares You...For Moments That Define You

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    32

    Default

    My preferred method if I have to go vert with stokes is similar to what you have. I use a 12 or 15 foot piece of webbing with two loops tied with overhand knot at center. Size each loop for patient's foot, then clove hitch each end to the side rail. Then we use a 35 foot piece of webbing girth hitched on bottom of stokes, with each side laced back and forth up to the head end. Tie it off with truckers hitches or clove hitches.
    I would much rather use the sked if have to go vertical. It gives the patient a lot more "warm and fuzzy feeling."

  6. #6
    Moderator
    ProgressiveRescue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TRT24 View Post
    My preferred method if I have to go vert with stokes is similar to what you have. I use a 12 or 15 foot piece of webbing with two loops tied with overhand knot at center. Size each loop for patient's foot, then clove hitch each end to the side rail. Then we use a 35 foot piece of webbing girth hitched on bottom of stokes, with each side laced back and forth up to the head end. Tie it off with truckers hitches or clove hitches.
    I would much rather use the sked if have to go vertical. It gives the patient a lot more "warm and fuzzy feeling."
    Indeed...a cravat as a blindfold will work wonders for a patient afraid of heights and or the operation as a whole. Take away someones vision and they see things in a whole different light.
    Mike Donahue
    "Training Prepares You...For Moments That Define You

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Yeah,I can see that now. "I'm from the Government and I am here to help you. Trust me while I tie you up and put this blindfold on you"

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    FiremanLyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressiveRescue View Post
    Indeed...a cravat as a blindfold will work wonders for a patient afraid of heights and or the operation as a whole. Take away someones vision and they see things in a whole different light.
    Mike Donahue
    Quote Originally Posted by TRT24 View Post
    Yeah,I can see that now. "I'm from the Government and I am here to help you. Trust me while I tie you up and put this blindfold on you"
    Works wonders, or causes the pt to panic and thrash around (agrivate injuries, try to untie themselves, make us look like the Keystone Cops) when they go over the edge. I sure hope the cravat blindfold is a joke.
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

  9. #9
    Moderator
    ProgressiveRescue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Works wonders, or causes the pt to panic and thrash around (agrivate injuries, try to untie themselves, make us look like the Keystone Cops) when they go over the edge. I sure hope the cravat blindfold is a joke.
    Ha! Serioisly don't knock it until you try it. We took a few guys that were scared of heights blindfolded them and lowered then from a tower. They knew what was going on but because the visual fear was removed they said their mental fear was greatly reduced.
    I'm not saying this will work on all our patients but consider it another trick in our bag of tools.
    Mike Donahue

    "Training Prepares You...For Moments That Define You

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    N. Ridgeville, Ohio
    Posts
    811

    Default

    I couldn't find the picture I thought I had. Let me try and make this sound clear.

    Here is what we do for our stokes.
    Pt gets a victim harness or hasty seat
    Victim is lashed with 8mm cord across body all the way to shoulders, terminated in trucker's hitch.
    We keep 10mm cord with two legs attached at the head. Each leg has a prussik on it. This is then clipped into the victims harness and tightened to prevent vertical travel.

    Obviously, a pelvic injury would prevent a vertical raise of just about any sort. I hope this is as clear as mud.
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    FiremanLyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Ok, along with the blindfold... pt's arms in or out? Scenerio dependent would again be my answer, but some people have a hard opinion on it.

    Jason, makes good sense.

    Time to go sleep off the turkey. Tell dispatch not to wake us unless it is on fire; working a 48 and have run my share of overdoses and suicide threats this Thanksgiving.
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

  12. #12
    Moderator
    ProgressiveRescue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Ok, along with the blindfold... pt's arms in or out? Scenerio dependent would again be my answer, but some people have a hard opinion on it.

    Jason, makes good sense.

    Time to go sleep off the turkey. Tell dispatch not to wake us unless it is on fire; working a 48 and have run my share of overdoses and suicide threats this Thanksgiving.
    I like to keep he patients arms in...it's safer for us and them. And yes this method is very scenario dependent...but it does work.
    The turkey has gotten the best of me tonight....I'm going to perform a horizontal operation in my recliner now.
    To everybody thats working...have a safe shift.
    Mike Donahue
    "Training Prepares You...For Moments That Define You

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    jdcalamia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Broomall, PA
    Posts
    106

    Default

    All good methods guys. Definitely a thinking man's game here. How 'bout actual vertical rigging for the lower. Mike has a good down and dirty method that I like on his website, anyone else have anything?
    John D. Calamia, BS, NREMTP, FP-C
    Firefighter/Flight Paramedic
    Broomall, PA

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    59

    Default

    We have found CMC's Patient Tie-In system to be simple, effective, and efficient.
    http://www.cmcrescue.com/assets/dept...g/724151-b.jpg

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    178

    Default

    All are common methods to tie a patient in. The key thing to remember is to base your tie-in method (and maybe even extraction orientation and device choice) on the patient's injury. Leg injury? Stirrups in the lashing don't work so well. Pelvic injury? A diaper seat may not be the best choice.

  16. #16
    Moderator
    ProgressiveRescue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmatthe2 View Post
    All are common methods to tie a patient in. The key thing to remember is to base your tie-in method (and maybe even extraction orientation and device choice) on the patient's injury. Leg injury? Stirrups in the lashing don't work so well. Pelvic injury? A diaper seat may not be the best choice.
    Well said! We work in a dynamic environment and our skill should reflect that. The patients well being and medical status is our responsibility with that we must look at what we have and create the best possible packaging system.
    Great post...simple but it weighs heavy in a operation.
    Mike Donahue
    "Training Prepares You...For Moments That Define You

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. vertical venting...
    By KevinFFVFD in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-20-2007, 10:50 AM
  2. Forest Fire Fighters Reform Movement
    By hoffa in forum Wildland Firefighting
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-13-2000, 02:10 AM
  3. Using a vertical crush technique
    By rmoore in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-19-1999, 01:34 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register